Melanie
Welcome to the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast for all decision makers and action takers. Take it away, Esther.
Esther
And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. Today, we're joined by Charlie Day, and we're going to be talking about what WhatsApp Marketing. Welcome, Charlie.
Charlie
Hello. I'm so excited to be here.
Melanie
My God, you are.
Esther
We're very excited to have you because we have been looking. So the podcast has now been going for five and a half years. And for at least the last two and a half, we have been trying to find somebody to come on to talk to us about WhatsApp Marketing because it has taken off. And we're so glad to have you here because we really want to pick your brain about all things WhatsApp and why it has taken off so suddenly or so much. It's not even sudden. Well, it's probably a sudden too. But it has just exploded, hasn't it? So first of all, what made you get into marketing through WhatsApp?
Charlie
Yeah, so I think as a consumer, I stopped reading emails a long time ago. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't have time to read emails. So the most that you're going to get my attention in my emails is just by your name cropping up and the title of the email. But let's be honest, unless it is something I'm really, really interested in thinking about buying, I'm not opening that email, not in a million years. And I live my life on WhatsApp. I support my clients on WhatsApp. I talk to my family on WhatsApp. I talk to my friends on WhatsApp. WhatsApp is something that I don't have any unread messages on WhatsApp, whereas my email box is a completely different scenario. Actually, I have someone else manage my inbox now. So it's not even like I'm seeing those emails half the time. They've been deleted before I even see them. So I got to be on a couple of people's marketing lists on their WhatsApp marketing, and I read all of their messages. Everything that came through, I was opening because I don't have any unread messages on WhatsApp. And I just thought, oh, my gosh, this is the way to get people's attention in 2024-2025. And so we started playing around with it. And I was met by the general people aren't going to want to leave their mobile numbers. My Ops manager was like, oh, do you think people are going to want to leave their mobile numbers? And we don't know until we try. We tried. Everybody left their mobile numbers. I run a sales agency called Sales Made The Agency, where we do sales on behalf of all of our clients. And so after I tried this for myself and got insane results, I rolled it out to my clients and was like, listen, WhatsApp marketing is where it's at. We are getting a 99% open rate on on WhatsApp, compared to about 42% on a good day on email, between 30 and 42, 42 is my highest. So I think we should try WhatsApp marketing for you guys as well. And again, the same, oh, gosh, do you think people would leave their mobile numbers. I don't have that many people. I might get the odd person who writes just ones in the box or whatever. That's fine. But with our WhatsApp marketing, there's an unsubscribe. It's exactly the same as your email marketing, but you're going directly into the WhatsApps. I cannot tell you the results we've had with it.
Melanie
So where would WhatsApp marketing be in a funnel? Would it be... Would it be the awareness, consideration or conversion part, or would it be encompassing all areas?
Charlie
We generally use it for people who are already in the funnel to go to the next step. So, for example, this week I did a masterclass. At the end of the masterclass, everyone got WhatsApped about the offer that was in the masterclass. The next day, we sent another WhatsApp out with the replay. And then the great The thing about this is we can look who has responded, who's clicked through, and then we can go and have more personalized conversations with those people in WhatsApp as well. So they are already in our funnel. We're not sending it out as top of funnel. Yeah, that's where they are with their decision.
Esther
So I've been in some WhatsApp funnels, let's call them that. Some of them are set up, though, that you can't reply, that it's just the announcement, or it's just the admin that can send that. Would you recommend setting them up like that or having a two-way conversation available?
Charlie
So we've played around with numerous different things, and it depends what you want out of it. So I have done weekly sales tips, which we send out as a broadcast to a lot of people who are in a WhatsApp group, and they can't respond to that, because obviously, if I got thousands and thousands of people in there, I do not want to be getting responses from people, because I have quite a big WhatsApp community elsewhere, and it can get really, really busy. Some people love that, some people hate it. So with those broadcasts, I have no responses on. Now, when I'm sending WhatsApps out to my whole list, they're going out via Wati. Some people use Manychat as well, but it's like a system that sends out a lot of WhatsApps And they can respond. I want them to respond. The aim is that they respond and say, Oh, my gosh, Charlie, I want to buy from you right now. That is the aim. So I think if you cut off responding, it's not going to help you. Now, with the broadcast stuff that I did, that was more of an awareness of who I am and me building myself out as an authority. So that was for a completely different reason. So I think we should all be using WhatsApp. If you're listening to this and you're not using WhatsApp as part of your marketing, you are missing out massively. We should all be using WhatsApp. Play around with it, see what works, see what doesn't work. And, yeah, let's make some sales.
Melanie
So there is obviously a difference in WhatsApp for personal and for business. What is the difference and what benefits would people get from using WhatsApp for business?
Charlie
I don't know if there is a difference. I think in 2025, we want to be Having these conversations that are more personal. So why wouldn't we do it in WhatsApp? People have been, I don't want to give my mobile number out. Now, listen, I do have a different business mobile number, but I don't care I'm not here about giving my mobile number out. I want people to buy from me. I want people to know about me. I want people to know who I am. I want people to feel comfortable that they can message me and say, do you know what? I need help with this certain thing. Boom, let's get on a sales call and I'll close you down to one of my products. I want to have that back and forth. So I think if we bridge the gap, some people are very precious. I don't want to be sending WhatsApps out. WhatsApps are personal. Cool. Go for you. I'm making thousands of pounds on WhatsApp. You do you, babes.
Melanie
Cool. So what age range or demographic would you find using WhatsApp? Because classically, I found that a younger audience these days prefer not to call, they prefer to text. Whereas obviously the the older audience, they'd still rather speak to a person. So how do you see the breakdown?
Charlie
I don't find that anybody wants to speak on the phone these days, regardless of their age. I love a talent. When I started, I set up my first business when I was 21, which is like 15 years ago now. And everyone used to ring me. They used to ring me and have a chat. It was brilliant. You could nurture them. You could take them on a journey really quickly. You could sell to them on the phone. Now, if people ring, they're like, oh, my God, my phone's ringing. It's so unusual. So I don't think anyone wants to chat on the phone. Maybe if your target audience was like '60s or something, maybe. My target audience is mums in their 30s who love a WhatsApp. I don't know if your target market was 18 to 25s, if they would respond to WhatsApp. I presume that they would because they're all on their phones all of the It's all the time anyway. That's not my target market. I generally work with mums, business owners who are 30 to 40. And from my experience, they are on WhatsApp. They're responding to my WhatsApps, and I'm able to bring them from a WhatsApp to a set up discovery call, which is where I would close them down.
Esther
So you mentioned using Wati and using-.
Charlie
ManyChat.
Esther
Manychat. Are there lots of platforms available for sending out broadcasts apart from using just WhatsApp itself as a broadcasting channel? Or would you recommend more like organic? Or does it really matter if you're adding in these other things. I mean, thinking of Facebook and all the other meta-owned businesses that they much prefer you to use their integrated and native platform to send your messages and things. Do they mind? Do they have an issue with you having these third-party apps sending things?
Charlie
I mean, they're the only two that I have played around with. And just for full transparency, I am not a technical person. This is not my area of expertise. Like, actually, what goes into the WhatsApp and sales part of it, that is my experience. That is my expertise. But don't ask me any technical questions about how you take this up because I'm not going to be able to answer them. But they are the two that we have played around with. We also use many chat on Instagram, works really well with your trigger words and all of that stuff. Now, these WhatsApps are going directly into their inbox, so it's not causing... Do you know what I mean? It's not causing any problems using a third-party app. As far as I know, you can't do it on WhatsApp alone. You can't send mass messages. But again, I'm not that technical.
Melanie
I guess using WhatsApp, because so many people use it to speak to friends and family that are overseas, and it's an app they use every day. It's not adding another app, which some businesses like to do. I know there was somebody who approached me recently who was saying, oh, I'm thinking of starting community on circle. I was like, What are the merits of setting this up? I went through the pros and cons. Although it's a great place, it's a fantastic place to build a community, it's yet another app that people have to download. We all look at our phones. I challenge everybody who's watching or listening right now to look at your phones and see how many apps are back in the cloud because you haven't used it for so long. And circle is probably one of them. It's, this WhatsApp, you use it every day for everything.
Charlie
Well, exactly.
Melanie
This customer service as well is used. I've got some custom T-shirts done. I've got a work placement person coming to join me soon. And I've got some custom T-shirts done. And the whole conversation was in WhatsApp.
Charlie
Some of my clients are in, so I've got... The majority of my sales agency clients are in the UK, but I've also got sales agency clients in Dubai. And in Dubai, everything is done on WhatsApp, every single conversation. If you're working with a service provider, if you're working with a client, family and friends, arranging a coffee, it's all done on WhatsApp. And even if you look at the social media apps, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, you'll see people who are like, oh, I'm not. I'm opening a Facebook group for this challenge. Oh, I'm not on Facebook. Oh, I'm doing this thing on LinkedIn. Oh, I don't really use LinkedIn. Everybody uses WhatsApp, literally everybody. And I think it's time we started building a WhatsApp list out in the same way that we build an email list.
Esther
You were saying about sending out a broadcast to hundreds and thousands of people. But in those broadcast lists, everyone can see who's in it. Everyone can see the members. And what's to stop people just going in and gleaning numbers and gleaning names out of it?
Charlie
If you're in a community, then that is true, but not if you're in a broadcast. So what's that community can see the numbers. But again, why are we so precious about that? I don't know.
Melanie
I agree. I've used the same phone number for personal and business for nearly 13 years, and I've only ever had three unwarranted phone calls in that time. They weren't rude. I think two of them were window salespeople, and one of them was like, IP phones or something like that. And I just didn't want to hear from them. And we all get calls that drop, so you just block them, don't you? So I don't see the harm in putting your phone number out there, especially like yourself, Charlie, if you've gone to the trouble of having two phones, two different numbers.
Charlie
Yeah. So I use my business number and it integrates into my phone. So I've only got one phone, two numbers. Obviously, that costs You've got to pay for the number on a monthly basis. But if I was just starting out and I wasn't worried about that, the amount of people who might be messaging me, I just think crack on. I was doing a video this morning for TikTok, and I was like, people are so worried about this stuff, and people are so desperate to make as many sales as they possibly can, right? If everybody in the world knew about your business, you'll be making sales all the time. But the truth is, a tiny, tiny amount of the world know who you are and what your business is. Even if you've got 10,000 followers, it's nothing. 10,000 followers is nothing compared to how many people there are in the world. So let's stop getting precious about people calling unsolicitedly or sending you a message, who cares? If the more people who know about your business, the more likely you are to buy from. Don't hide under a rock. People aren't going to buy from you. Let's get out there. Let's put our mobile number out there for people to text you and get in contact. If you don't feel comfortable with that being your personal number, it's inexpensive to get a different number and do it that way. But I think we got to stop being worried about all of this. What's the worst that can happen? Someone might ring you, someone might text you. They're probably going to do that any way because there's companies who scrape lists off the internet. I don't panic about that. I'll probably get a stalker after this podcast.
Esther
Yeah, and we're not even bringing up GDPR.
Charlie
I mean, it's all in with GDPR, obviously, it's exactly the same as your email list. If you use or anything like that. I have had this flagged up by somebody before who was... It was actually her job is to find people who are not GDPR compatible. And she was on my list. Brilliant. I'm so pleased. And so she did contact me and say, I don't think that this is in line with GDPR. And I was like, oh, my gosh, tell me if it's not, because I'm very worried. Anyway, it turns out she hadn't read the small print, and it completely was in line with GDPR. And because she hadn't seen WhatsApp marketing like I did before, that's why she thought that I wasn't. So, yeah, it's completely in line with GDPR. People are opting in with their mobile numbers, very clearly stating that I will be sending them marketing messages, and there's an unsubscribed on every single message.
Melanie
And just for those who are overseas, you'll have exactly the same as can spam and other things that are like GDPR that are relevant to your country, so it should be exactly the same. Okay, so you've grown this. When did you literally start this campaign into WhatsApp, and how quickly did it take to grow?
Charlie
I think I started it in September last year. I sent out a message saying, who wants my mobile number? It was one of the most opened emails I've ever sent. People thought it was a hoax. People thought that can't actually be her mobile number. And so they added themselves to my list because I was like, I'm on WhatsApp all night. Send me a message if you want my mobile number. And so that was the start of it, and I was getting all of this back and forth, and then we started integrating it onto sales pages and things like that. But I was doing a talk in Scotland, and we weren't allowed to sell from the stage. And I'm very like, I do a lot of speaking gigs, and sometimes you're allowed to sell from the stage, and sometimes you aren't allowed to sell from the stage. So I'm very good at getting creative around, I'm not selling from the stage, but I am going to be capturing everyone's data so I can sell for them later when I'm not on the stage. So I was thinking about ways that I could do this that were quirky and different and didn't seem like selling, but ultimately were. And I flashed my mobile number up on the screen on my last slide and said, If my talk has resonated, if you want free sales tips on how you can make more sales, just text this number right now. And there was a QR code as well to speed things up, but it was literally a slide with my mobile number. And people were like, oh, my gosh, that's so clever. I've never seen it before. It's different. Is it real? People were scanning the QR code to see how it works, what the tip is going to be. People want different, right? And so actually, ended I ended up making thousands of pounds from that event on the back of that, because I think a hundred people in the room ended up on my WhatsApp list.
Melanie
There you go.
Esther
So with that in mind, it is just really starting to take off and more and more people are starting to use it. So just like our emails are now inundated, and you said that inbox zero is basically nonexistent, I fully comply. I'm looking at my number on the top of my screen and it's 16,000 emails. But that's not over just one email address. I've got seven email addresses. How long do you think it will take, though, to get to that same saturation point in WhatsApp?
Charlie
I mean, I don't know. I'm a big fan of jumping on things. I remember back in 2011, I started my business and everyone was sending out mail mergers, multi-mails through the post, handwritten envelopes. How can you stand out from the crowd when everyone's doing it? I remember I did this. I was selling drama classes at the time into schools, and I was like, I won't screw up the drama in your school. And then I screwed up the piece of paper, put it in the envelope, felt like Bulk email. I got so much business because people were like, oh, it's so different. And then in the end, I stopped sending bulky mail. I was like, there's WhatsApp. No, not WhatsApp. There's Instagram There's Facebook. There's all of these things. I don't need to do bulk email anymore. Let them people crack on. I'm going to move on. And so I left my bulk email days behind me, and I moved on Instagram, Facebook. I adopted those things whilst businesses were just getting on them. I remember 2011, hardly any businesses on Facebook. And I think it's the same. Jump on the marketing trends, go with them whilst they work. I'm still going to be sending emails out two times a week to my list, right? I'm not We're going to stop doing that just because it's not as effective as it was. And here's the hilarious thing. Last week for one of our clients, we were thinking about how we could get more leads, and I was like, do you know what I think we should do? I think we should send out some bulk email, and I think we should follow up with a phone call, because no one's doing that. And so these things come back around. And now it's like, we had such a good response, like handwritten envelopes. We did little tea bags, take a break while we thought your tech, it was for one of our clients. And it just worked It worked really, really well. So, yeah, it might get saturated, but it's not saturated right now. So jump on and let's go.
Melanie
Oh, my God. Emails are just so retro. I couldn't agree with you more, Charlie, and that's precisely where we got you on here today. So, Charlie, if people wanted to learn more about you and hear more from you, where would they best contact you?
Charlie
Yeah, so I'm everywhere, really. I'm on Instagram and TikTok as Charlie Day Sales and LinkedIn Charlie Day Sales. Also, I run a Facebook group called Sales Is Easy If You Just Know How. I've also written a book called Sales Is Easy If You Just Know How, and I also host a podcast called Sales Is Easy If You Just Know How. And if you come into my funnel, you'll be on my WhatsApp list before you know it.
Melanie
Thank you so much, Charlie. It was totally worth the two and a half year wait.
Esther
It was.
Charlie
Thank you.
Melanie
Well, that's all the time we have for for now, guys. But please do reach out to her about WhatsApp. Not us. Okay. If you've got any questions about WhatsApp, she's your woman. And we'll be back next week with another podcast. Take care.
Esther
Bye-bye.
Melanie
Bye.
How do we start this whole WhatsApp thing then? Because we need it for us.
Charlie
Yeah, I think the first thing that I would do if I was starting it out, if I.
