Esther
And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing podcast for decision makers and action takers. And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing podcast. Today, we're joined by Tina Calder, and she's here to tell us all about Crisis Communications. Welcome, Tina.
Tina
Hi. Thank you so much for having me, Esther, Melanie. Really excited. I'm getting to talk about my favorite thing. I love it when people mess up.
Esther
Well, is Crisis Comms not supposed to be to prevent the mess up?
Tina
Exactly. But that's when you need me, you see, when you have messed up. It's one of those things in this industry, it presents the biggest challenge, and I think that's what I thrive on. I thrive on those challenges, which is why I love doing it. Not because I love seeing people in the poop, but because I love getting them out of it.
Melanie
When people need your particular set of services or when people need to understand how to use it, what examples would you see come across your door?
Tina
If I were to take the last few years, for example, I have had a couple of high-level leaders in chair positions where they were going through a significant shift in the organization. And what they needed was, how do I get out of this alive? How do I get out of this without being the person that gets blamed for it all? And so there is a lot of work then done with those people about how to control the narrative, how to create that narrative, and how to ensure that that narrative is authentic and truthful at the same time as honest. And that's so, so hard for a lot of people, because back in the day, it would have been, say nothing, tomorrow's chip paper. And that was very much what a lot of people are still thinking, Say nothing, it'll go away. It never goes away anymore. Another one I was brought in by a large retailer. They had had some stuff happen in the influencing space where it was essentially complaints around lack of footfall, lack of... I'm trying not to give the clients away, obviously. The problem was that what the influence influencer had shown that went viral did not show the stuff around. It didn't show the whole picture. And so they ended up in a scenario where people were openly talking about how bad this was when actually there was a lot of good being done. So again, it's about how do we control that narrative? How do we bring it back again? Another one was actually just preventing a story hit in the press. And that required an awful lot more. That's where my relationship management comes in. That's where having an honest conversation with the editors, being able to explain the story that you think you've got isn't really quite the actual story. These are the consequences if you publish as is. However, at a later stage, we are going to have the full story, and we're more than happy to hold that as an exclusive for you. It's all about controlling the narrative and ensuring that you're controlling it in an honest, truthful manner. If you can do those those things, you can normally recover from almost anything. I do say almost anything because there are many people out there that will never recover.
Esther
You mentioned there about the relationship management, and that brings up the point that you used to work as a journalist. That's where you started, basically, was in the press, in the newspapers. Tell us a bit about that and how that led you then into Crisis Comms.
Tina
I would say that I'm still a journalist. I even wore my newspaper top just for you. I think it never goes away. You never lose that thirst for the story, that need to want to get information to the public. But I think that having that grounding in the media itself has helped me understand a bit more of the nuance behind the scenes. For example, when a client is coming to me and they're telling what has happened. Instantly, I know the questions that a journalist is going to ask. Instantly, I know that there's going to be an editor going, That doesn't sound right. Somebody go and look into that. I know quite quickly what the process is going to be when that hits the news desks. And very often there are times when clients will send me stuff and I'm going, I know you haven't mentioned X, but I can tell that X is missing. And so as a journalist, I would go looking for it. And so sometimes you're better off skimming past it in a one line than not mentioning at all. I think that that has really helped me not only understand the process better, but also then be able to use the relationships that I have to have open and honest conversations with the media. You don't hide stuff from the media. If they want to write it, they'll write it regardless of how well they know me and how much they like me. It's about having an open, honest conversation and being able to help them get the story that is right rather than the story that is right now, if that makes sense.
Melanie
I wanted to ask you about Crisis Comms for online and offline issues. Do you treat them differently? Is there different ways and different means that you fix those two different areas?
Tina
I think with all Crisis Comms, now, speed is of the essence. You must make decisions quickly. You must get on with things. In the past, it would have been very much like, oh, I need to talk to such and such. We need to have a board meeting and this and that and the other. I go in actually now and do crisis comms plans for people so that there is someone in the organization that will instantly be allowed to make that decision. The buck will stop at them and things can move quickly. When it comes to online, it's about de-escalating because it can blow up very, very quickly. And that's where a lot of people make the mistake of they delete the post or they delete comments or they hide things. They take this reactionary behavior, and what happens is that inflames it more. So then it just starts a complete storm. That's where you see the screenshots and, Oh, you thought that it was gone, but it's not. Here it is. Very much for me, there's almost a process that you go through. Number one is you acknowledge the problem. Number two is you explain the problem.
Number three How are you going to fix the problem? Number four, you reinforce that apology. And the words sorry, and the words I apologize, and the words we will fix it, or we will do this, or all of those things that show accountability are really, really important. And they're often the hardest for a lot of organizations to figure out what it should be. And I think that we are now in a society where people, they really value that honesty and that authenticity. They would rather you go, I messed up. I'm an idiot. I really screwed up. Like, look at Gary Lineker, for example, when he had that issue with the BBC. You've had lots of people like that. He held his hands up and went, I'm an idiot. I didn't really know what he was doing. You could tell that he hadn't deliberately done it, but you could also tell he was taking accountability and he was saying, I deserve to lose my job as a result of this, and I accept the consequences. But he hasn't really lost the love of Gary Lineker as a result. Most people are going, oh, come on, he shouldn't have lost his job over that.
Whether you think that's right or not. I think that's where when you get the narrative right, when you respond quickly and effectively and efficiently, that's when you're going to see Crisis Comms working. Where they don't work is when you try to give excuses. I always say you need to give reason, not excuse, because those two things are very, very different, but many people see them as interchangeable. But realistically, there is a reason for something, but it's not the reason why it happened.
Esther
You mentioned there about going in to companies and setting up a Crisis Comms plan and leaving someone in charge of the plan. What would a plan look like? Let's go for an online business. What would a plan entail? And is it different from an offline business?
Tina
I don't think that the principles are different. I think that... And that, to me, is throughout the whole of marketing, your principles will always be the same. It's just really how you behave and react and where you're going to do that level of movement. For me, it's always about who's responsible. So who is the one person in the organization that's going to go, I'll deal with this. Don't worry, I got you. And at that point, is that person confident enough to say, I can deal with this myself, I can take all the accountability, and I can direct the rest of the staff? Or is that somebody who goes, I will look after this. I'm going to ring Tina, and she's going to fix it, or something. It's figuring out what does that look like. Then also, what does the approvals process look like? When is it too long? How quickly? Can you go ahead if you don't hear back from the chief executive because they're on a plane to Dubai or something? Can you go ahead or do you have to hold? What are the risk assessments from waiting versus taking immediate action? I am one of those people in life that believes a sorry is often better than permission. But at the same time, different stages in the corporate journey will require different things. Also, it's understanding the corporate message, understanding that what does that business stand for? If I was to take Excalibur Press, we stand for truth and integrity. I have told my staff, no matter what you tell the truth, I don't ever want it to be covered up. But if I was in a different business, it might be a case of we protect our reputation at all costs. It's that at all costs could be we protect the reputation against truth and honesty and authenticity, whereas I'm the opposite. I'm like, I don't care what the consequences are. If you remain truthful, etcetera. It's things like that, understanding that brand narrative, understanding where the line is, and also understanding that a Crisis Comms plan may change from leadership to leadership. One leader may prefer a certain type of crisis comms and another a different. And that's where if you're a new leader coming into an organization, these are the things that you should be looking at to ensure that it aligns with your personal integrity and how you operate, because you might find that something could happen a year into your leadership term. You didn't know that the crisis comms plan said to do X, Y, and Z, and next minute you're sitting on a Saturday afternoon going, I would never have done that. I would never have done that. It's about the preparation is probably more important than the actual reaction itself.
Melanie
Talking of preparation, I've heard that some companies do a practice day. Is that something you would encourage? How is it done?
Tina
It's hard. You used to be able to do things where you would put a manager on camera and you would ask them loads of difficult questions and you would make their life a misery for 10 minutes and things like that. What are the things that... And what you would do is you would deliberately act like the most infamous, angry journalist you'd ever met in your whole life. But those days are gone because we are seeing these things happening on a daily basis. We're much more in tune with what crisis communications are. We might not know that that's its name, but we do know that when something bad happens, you instantly, if it's somebody coming out on TikTok, I'm so sorry, I made a mistake. We all know that there is damage management being done. So I think that people's general understanding is a bit better these days. I do think it is hard to plan for an emergency because that's essentially what it is. I think if your staff know that they've got to get out and congregate in the car park, that's all they need to know. They don't actually need to be able to deal with it any further because their only action in it is go tell somebody who is being paid to deal with it and then wait in the car park for the building to burn down or not. That's the thing. It's ensuring that people know their lane as well. There may be many leaders in your organization that you don't want to have anything to do with crisis comms. Very often, your marketing leadership are not the right people to deal with your crisis comms because they are so focused on marketing the company to look good that in crisis, you're not trying to look good, you're trying to look truthful, you're trying to look honest. And what you want is the general public to believe you. As long as they believe you, you're okay. The problem is if you start trying to add the marketing messages and add that information, you start to cloud it and it starts to be like, oh, here we go. We're the best company in the whole world. And so it's about that humbleness that comes with crisis comes. And very often people who are spending every single waking moment big in the company up and telling people how wonderful they are, they find that hard to rein back. It's not their fault because that's what they're there to do. Very often it's somebody outside of that circle. But with that person's input, because that person's input in the brand voice and what the company stands for and how we deliver the messages is really important. They might just not be the right person to lead on what the overall message is.
Melanie
Make sense.
Tina
I know so many marketing people are going to come after me now for that.
Esther
No, I, for one, would personally agree with that because it is one of those things where you're so, like you said, invested in showing the good side and these are the pros and the benefits. And this is why you should buy or this is why you should invest or whatever. To then have to turn around and go, Well, actually, yeah, we messed up. Now, what? How do I say that? But I think it was interesting what you said, too, about Gary Lineker. Now, for our American audience who don't know who that is, he's a sports pundit, especially football, soccer, sports pundit, who released something on social media that as a sports personality, he's got very much in the public eye. But you said that a lot of people don't think that he should have been fired or whatever. Do you think that it was because he reacted so quickly and of how he held his hands up and said, Yeah, I messed up. Or is it the 30 plus years of people knowing and liking him, trusting him before that?
Tina
I think it's a combination of both. I think with Gary Lineker, my goodness, we trusted him to decide what crisps we were going to buy for so many years. He is one of those personalities that I suppose has been a staple in homes for a very, very long time. And so he had built a reputation of trust, but even that wasn't enough to save him. Now, interestingly, some of the conversation behind the scenes was that we're looking rid of him anyway. He'd been there a wee bit too long. And so maybe there was a conversation that was like, look, Gary, you were probably coming to the end of your tenure anyway. Do you want to go out on a high where you've done the right thing? So there could have been a more. If I was his publicist, I would have definitely had a big conversation with him as, Is this the time to move your career somewhere else? Did he get a call from Sky that afternoon to say, If the BBC don't want you, we'll take you? There's so much stuff happening in the background. It could just be that he's wanting to retire. He's probably got plenty of money. He doesn't probably need to be given up every Saturday afternoon. He might just want to go and chill out in the pub for the day. I think that there's a lot more that you look at than what is the immediate behavior, what is the immediate outcome. Sometimes companies do use crisis comms as an opportunity to do a big shift or a big change. So they go, Okay, we're in the pub. We've got to build something. Why don't we change that model now while we can and come back and say, Look what we've done. We've changed everything. We've made 500 redundancies because we were doing it wrong. And you probably could find that they were trying to do 500 redundancies for six months. And so there's so much more behind it. I mean, even when I was working with one of those high-level leaders, they were very much thinking about what is my next career? Where do I want to go? They had specific organizations in mind that they wanted to work with. And so when we were crafting their response, both behind the scenes in a chain of emails and things like that, and in front of scenes to the press and socials and whatnot, we were thinking, what leads me to these particular companies? What attracts those companies to me now that I am no longer in that particular role? There's so much more behind the scenes that you have to think about. Interesting. You could use to win a war people didn't even know was happening. And so very often I say, You know what? If the house blown up, we may as well rebuild from scratch. Because there's not a better time to make big changes than when you're already on the back-foot.
Esther
Yeah, that's true.
Melanie
So one last question. We've talked a lot about larger companies. But what about the sole traders who have messed up? How do they recover? How do they make a difference when they've worked so hard to build their reputation and then they've messed up as well?
Tina
It's so hard because those people can't afford to bring the professionals in. They don't have that skill set. They don't have the time. If I was to give one piece of advice, it's always, admit what you've done wrong, explain how it happened, be accountable, and what will you do to fix it? Because those things, if you can be honest and say, I messed up. I didn't even know I was supposed to have that certification I thought that I was going to be better at business or I don't know how to count, so I didn't do my accounts properly and now I'm in trouble. I think that people really respond to the vulnerability of humans. We can't be expected to do everything right. I mean, if you look back at my business history, I have been bankrupt, I have liquidated companies, I've had a house repossessed in my 20s. If you look at all of these things, there's lots and lots of mistakes along the way. But for me, that's not what defines me. What defines me is, what did I learn? How did I get past that? What resilience do I now have? How do I not make those mistakes again? I think that your customers, if the product is doing what it should, if the product or service is doing what it should, and you've maybe messed up with your customer service or your follow-up or something like that, easy to recover. If the product is screwed, in other words, if something fell off it and it doesn't work now, and that has happened to 50 people, then you've got to be saying things like, I'm pulling it from the market, I'm going to go back to the manufacturer, I'm now redesigning. I understand a lot of people have invested in me. As soon as we do this, I am going to contact you. Contacting people and going, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry, is so valuable. It's happened to me very recently in that I double booked myself for a training that I created, it was a free training session, and I double booked myself with a paying client. And I had to just email people and say, I'm so sorry, I accidentally double-booked this, and I have to go with a paying client because I have a business, but I will reschedule. And there was one person who came back and was like, this is not good enough. And I was like, It was for free. But I had to remember that there was another 30 people who went, That's all right. Just let us know when the next date is. But of course, I focused for the next two days on the person who didn't like me. That's just what you do.
Esther
Well, Tina, it has been wonderful to have you on today, and it's been so enlightening to learn more about Crisis Comms. Where can people go to learn about you and your upcoming events, free or paid for, whatever? Because there's lots and lots of stuff that you're doing, and you didn't even mention about your business burning down. So in all those crises that you've had.
Tina
I know we've had our own fair share of crises. My business is Excalibur Press. We're a multidisciplinary media and marketing company. You can find out all of our events and stuff on the website. It's just excaliburpress.co.uk/events. And we do two, three times a year, we release a series of free online webinars. Then we're currently doing a series of free networking and training events with Jenny Mount Business Park. We'll be doing that for for quite a long time. Then we often would get involved with other organizations and do lots of partnerships. There's also a blog on there, and you can find me on LinkedIn. Probably the best place to hear me ranting and moaning about things is LinkedIn and TikTok. I do a little on TikTok now as well.
Esther
That's great. Thank you.
Tina
Thank you so much.
Melanie
Okay, that's us for this week. Thank you again, Tina, for coming in. If you've got any questions for us or indeed for Tina, she's now told you how to contact her best. There is always a way of coming back from crisis. You just need to have the right skillset, be honest, and if you really need help, reach out because people are out there who can support and save your business. That's all for now. We'll be back next week with another podcast. Bye for now.
Esther
Bye-bye.
Tina
Bye.
