Melanie
Welcome to the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast for all decision makers and action takers. Take it away, Esther.
Esther
And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing podcast. Today we're joined by the fabulous, the wonderful lady in red, her yourself, Christine Gritmon, who is a personal brand strategist. And we will be talking about, guess what? Personal branding. Funny that, isn't it? Welcome.
Christine
I thought we were talking about gnomes. I've got the wrong, I've got the wrong set of notes here entirely.
Esther
I don't think you really need any notes when you're talking about either personal branding or gnomes.
Christine
It's true.
Esther
So it's all up here. It is. So tell us about yourself, Christine. How did you get into personal branding?
Christine
Sure. I actually started in personal branding when I was a journalist. So that was, that was a few careers in. I'm not going to go through the whole process there, but I became a journalist in my mid-30s, shortly after having my second child. And the second child bit does have something to do with it, which is that once I had two kids, I sort of really felt the this is the time in life when women disappear thing. I started figuring out this is why all the women at the networking events I go to are in their twenties or their fifties. Because, because people just kind of disappear into their families for a bit in their 30s and 40s, women particularly, a lot of times. And so I felt that and I felt the pull of that and I kicked extra hard against the current. So it was sort of like I, I burst on the scene out of nowhere at that time. And that's, that's also when I became a journalist. But it was just kind of a perfect storm of just being the right time in the right place, in the right circumstance to do the opposite of disappearing and to be really visible. And journalism wise, it also made sense to me to be visible and known in the communities that I was covering because it was a, it was a local paper, it covered three different counties. So I figured it was important for me to be known by the communities that, I was covering.
Melanie
Well, going by your particular personal brand, nobody can miss you. You are genuinely the lady in red.
Christine
The red wasn't a thing yet at that point.
Melanie
No.
Christine
No, I mean, it's always been my favourite colour. There's always been some red. But at that time it was more about being known as. This is Christine. She works for the paper. She's at all the events. She, you know, supports the non-profits, she supports the local businesses, blind, blah, blah, blah. That's that's what it was then, though. When I started my own business in May of 2016, it did help springboard me. Even though I was entering a completely different sphere as moving from journalism to social media strategy, it did help springboard me simply because I had, I was known, I was liked and I was trusted by the people in my local community. And that trust and that sense of my own, they kind of identified me as a social media expert before I identified myself as one or before I really felt like one. And so their trust in me sort of helped me into the next stage of my career. So even though my branding's a little different now and I'm known for something different now, it really was just a case of a rebrand, really. I still consider the personal brand that I'm running on now to have started in that, in that journalistic environment.
Melanie
Gotcha.
Christine
Yeah.
Melanie
So now you've got a full circle and you've explained where you are at now. Our listeners have probably not given some serious thought to their personal brand for some of them for some time, or for the start-ups or the beginners, it's a concept they hadn't even considered. There's so busy worried about who the customers are and what their products and services are. So how is a personal brand important for these types of businesses, from small solo start-ups to large corporates?
Christine
It's important because it connects to your visibility and especially your relevant visibility. If the people who need you can't find you, you can't help them. So personal branding to me is a few things. It is of course, being known, being findable. People know who the heck you are. It is being trusted. People understand the context of why they know who you are and that that context is a positive one. They know who you are because they know you're good at what you do. And then that further level and the thing that makes a personal brand even more, you know, important than kind of a brand brand in other ways, is that people don't trust brands, companies, organizations, quite as much as they trust other human beings. If they're going to put their money in your hands, if they're going to put their business in your hands, they really need to trust you. They need to trust that you know what you're talking about. They need to trust that you're going to work in a way that is comfortable for them. And by putting yourself out there as a human being, that's really the best way to earn that trust. It's also the best way to stick in People's heads. Because again, there's so many other brands out there, but there really is only one you. It's so trite. But other people do what you do and other people do it quite well, but nobody else is you. It's your only real competitive advantage.
Esther
So if you were talking to a solopreneur now, would you tell them to brand under their name like you yourself have christinegritmon.com as your website, I'm guessing. I can't remember.
Christine
It's. It's gritmon.com which my husband actually owns long before he met me and it's mine now. But if you do go, if you go to christinegritmon.com, it will redirect. I made sure to buy that too.
Esther
Okay, good, good. So getting back to the question. If you were talking to someone who was starting their own business on their own and they were coming up with a name that was sort of like an umbrella term or, you know, it was like a more of a company name, you know, would you recommend that they actually don't call it by a company name and just give it the name of you.com or, well, don't do that because that's an AI system. But you know, give it the name of christinegritmon.com or melanieboylan.com or you know.co.uk.ie whichever dot you want to put on the end. What advice would you give?
Christine
I think you should definitely have that because, because you know, that way at least you own the domain for your own name and identity if you ever want to use that. I think it really, it's kind of a two fold thing. On the one hand, it depends on what you plan to do because if you are planning on growing an agents, growing into an agency that employs multiple people that, you know, you could do an agency name, but I would recommend also building up your own name. You can do both. In fact, I've got someone on my pod, my own podcast, just this past week who has done that. They got known as themselves and then they also built an agency. But the fact is they are kind of the primary influencer for their agency, as it were. They're the person who's getting on stages, who's, you know, building those relationships and people know who the person is more than the agency. Exactly. And it also opens up your pathways because the fact is people are hiring the person to go speak on stages, they're having the person on podcasts, things like that. And then maybe that will lead work back to the agency. Which is great if it literally is just you. Sometimes people do kind of put a company name to it so that they sound bigger. I don't think bigger is an advantage. Some people think that if they sound bigger, if they sound like they are an agency, when it's really just them, people will take them more seriously. It'll seem like they're more of a real company. But again, people trust people. People trust human beings. And small is really a superpower if you're doing something that involves relationships, which most things ultimately do.
Melanie
Okay. I want to flip this on its head a little bit, Christine, if that's okay.
Christine
No, its not.
Melanie
Kind of told me.
Christine
it's your show, girl, do it.
Melanie
So let's say this is a larger agency, okay, just in. And they've developed this personal brand and they've made their way up in the world and they've now got a brand that's recognizable, but they get a member of staff to come in to manage their brand so that they can continue going to see people in person, face to face and that sort of stuff. So if we were to help that member of staff understand what the personal brand is, how would we do that?
Christine
So to be clear, the member of staff is managing the personal brand of the higher up executive?
Melanie
Yes.
Christine
Sort of ghost-writing it for them?
Melanie
Yes.
Christine
Okay. Well, my first thing is I don't like that. I'd be making a lot more money if I did like that because people certainly there's money for that. People do want to hire someone to write their thought leadership pieces and their social posts and all of that. And my problem is that is it's not coming from them unless it does. So here's what I would recommend doing in that circumstance. And this is actually something that I've done a little bit of, which is have the executive in question, you know, like interview them, basically have them give you their actual thoughts, their actual viewpoints, their actual expertise. And then I'd say that junior staff members should just chop that into bits. Like maybe some of it, it like maybe they do a video where they're interviewing the person and they use some video clips or they just use some of the transcript from that and spin it out into a lovely written piece. Another thing that I helped someone out with once was there was someone in financial services and that's very restricted as to what, especially in the States, as to what they're allowed to say. They're not allowed to be construed as giving advice. But I needed him to put his personal stamp on it because he subscribed to a service of pre approved articles and things like that to share. And so I had like three different people, himself included in my inbox, sending me the exact same emails every week. Like, that is not good. So I told him, I said, you know what, you can curate curated content is fine. First of all, I helped him narrow down his algorithm within that program to focus on the areas he cared about most. So he was the financial advisor and he was really big on teaching people to start healthy financial habits young. That was a big thing with him. And so we made sure that if he was going to share something, it was going to be about healthy financial habits. And a lot of times it was something that he did have something to say on. I said, okay, so don't just share it. Say why you found it worth sharing. You got to watch out, not to give advice, but say why you found this article interesting. Maybe ask people what they think of something that's in the article.
I mean, that's, that's another way to go about it. Really narrow down those sort of content pillars, as it were. Those topics that the person really cares about. Narrow it down to just a few and you have a lot more freedom there. Freedom with guardrails, essentially. It gives you a lot that you can do within those parameters. So those parameters are the part that makes it authentic to the other person's brand. And hopefully you can still get their thoughts on it and then just pretty them up. But overall, I think that the executive or whoever's personal brand it is has to be involved on some level. I don't really feel like they should entirely farm it out. They can have another person prettying it up, but I think the root should come from them because they're the expert.
Melanie
Cool, thank you.
Esther
Okay, so that leads me on then, to rebranding your personal brand.
Christine
Yeah.
Esther
Because, you know, how do you change your Persona? We've talked on this podcast on numerous occasions and recently with angel about rebranding and about changing your colours and changing your message and change as a company. So how does a person do that without, you know, because you yourself have done it. You started as a journalist and then moved into different careers.
Christine
I've done it. I've helped other people do it.
Esther
And so what would a process look like for going from, say, very corporate, very, you know, strictly professional language into more fun loving or. Or the opposite way around, you know. Because you could go from-.
Melanie
From interesting to boring.
Esther
Well, I was thinking like going from your twenties where you, you know. Yeah, you speak differently to in our, you know, 40s, etc, where we're supposed to have a little bit more sense. I said more sense. I did not say boring.
Melanie
Sorry.
Christine
I will never have sense. No, I think that the biggest, most important thing, especially if it's a career change, but even if it's just changing your visuals or whatever, but it's all about putting the emphasis on the bits that are remaining the same. And that should be your values, that should be your personality on some level. That's another reason why your face is the most important asset, that your brand really has your face and your voice, because those are going to stay the same and those are the things that people kind of register familiarity with. So I've talked to people who have changed careers, changed what they're doing and, you know, you put the emphasis on the part that is kind of a transferable skill. So in my case, I was a journalist in our local community and I wrote about businesses in our local community. And so who did I go to help when I started? Businesses in our local community? And it's grown beyond there, but. And personal branding, I made the switch from being mostly about helping small businesses with social media to helping businesses of all sorts with personal branding. But it made a lot of sense because I'm essentially doing very similar things. I'm using a lot of the same tools. And I really made the switch because people started noticing me. For personal branding. I said, well, why don't I offer this? But even if you're a totally different industry, I was talking to someone who worked in, worked helping companies with their sourcing and making their sourcing procedures more efficient and more green. She was becoming a coach, like a corporate teams coach. And I said, well, it's all about making systems healthier. I said, that's what you did in procurement and that's what you're doing as a coach. You're helping make systems healthier. So that's what she's emphasizing. But. Sorry, I saw, I saw a finger.
Melanie
So, yes, the personal branding, when I, when I hear that word, I, I'm more thinking about. Because it's personal. I'm sort of thinking about the clothing and the colour and, and the way I wear my hair and, and that sort of thing. When you go and change your business, your direction, let's say you're not really going to go and change your hairstyle and replace all your clothes, are you?
Christine
No. The window dressing and the actual product, which is the person. I know that sounds terrible, but the window dressing and the product itself are completely different. Things you can change both. You can change neither. Some people go around wearing their brand colours like crazy people. Some of them even go dyeing their hair that colour. For those who didn't know, I wear a lot of red and I used to have bright red hair. You don't have to do that. You can just look like you. Whatever you is, just look like that. The brand needs to follow the person is what it comes down to. If the person, if your look changes, yeah, definitely change your branding to fit it so that people recognize, you know, who the heck you are. I've been to some many events where I meet someone and then I look them up on LinkedIn and I don't even know that it's them. So your branding should follow your changes, but you are the one who leads everything. Just be you just be comfortable in yourself and just update the branding. So it follows similarly to kind of get back to what you were saying before about, like, maybe you're going from a very corporate serious environment to, you know, being a little freer or vice versa. That can all be communicated by things like clothing and style, but it's also communicated by language. It's communicated by the type of graphics you use, certainly. And I think a lot of those things can sort of be intuited by just living in the world. I mean, you know that if something is in navy blue script, it is going to read very differently than if it's in like a hot pink bubble lettering. It's just going to read differently. And part of that is, I mean, you can work with designers. You can also trust in yourself and your own vibe and feel like what, what appeals to you. Ultimately, it's really about trusting yourself, trusting your own intuition and opinions and, and letting those be your guide and always remembering that it's you who guides the branding and not the other way around.
Esther
I like that.
Melanie
I actually think that's probably going to be an excerpt on missing letter. So where I wanted to go with this now is how long does this process take and can it be a very costly thing to do? Are we talking hours, days, weeks? And I'm sure there's a sliding scale depending on the type of people you're working with. But, you know, you must have to arrange it for a budget for this sort of thing. So what are we looking at? Ballpark? Christie?
Christine
It can cost nothing.
Melanie
Oh.
Christine
Yeah, honestly, it really can. A lot of it is about, I mean, you should buy your domains, but a lot of that is really just about how much, how confident you are in how and how well you can outwardly express what you're trying to express and what you're trying to express should come from yourself. You should not be inventing something. This should not be creating a character. This should not be, you know, drawing up a caricature of what you think you ought to be. It's about figuring out how to express yourself the best possible way. Now, I do know people who have spent tens of thousands of dollars and, you know, a whole year on sorting, you know, new colour scheme for themselves and for their materials, new designs for their materials, new websites, new copywriting. They trained a new AI. You know, there's. There's stuff people do. It can cost as much or as little as you want. But I do think the first step, no matter what, before you hire somebody, should be just kind of, you know, throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Just kind of put yourself out there. It's. It's sort of like creating video or writing or something like that. Start doing it bit by bit when nobody's watching. See what feels good. See what catches with other people. Sorry, alarm. See what feels good. See what catches with other people as well. And that is going to help guide what becomes a strategy. So myself, for example, when I was a journalist, I was just me, you know, I wasn't really giving thought to the impression necessarily, and I started seeing what stood out to people about me and what sort of rose to the top. Then when I launched my own business, I sort of emphasized those things. And that was 2016, 2020. I went through a rebrand. And that rebrand was three parts. One of them was I decided my focus was no longer social media for small businesses. So I still did and do that. I decided I wanted to become known for personal branding. And it did turn out to be something I had that was a narrower field to be known for. So there was that. So that changed my messaging and what I put out there and my headlines and all of that.
I changed my fonts and I made my already existing colour palette more formalized instead of being kind of all sorts of red all over the place. No, I'm hex code CC0000. That is Christine Gritmon.
Esther
You remember it?
Christine
Yeah. Well, I use it all the time, so. So I sort of formalized that. I spent a month or two looking at different font combinations on Pinterest and decided on these ones because I. I wanted it to. I knew what I wanted it to feel like. But before I was making do with what was available to me for free. And I said, you know what, I'm actually going to buy fonts. I'm actually going to sit here and work on a logo. I have graphic design training, but if I hadn't, I probably would have hired someone to do a logo for me at that point because I was ready for more formalized branding. But that was a choice I didn't have to be and I was as legitimate before as I am now. And then the other part of it was I did get new pictures, especially since for a long time I did have the bright red dye in my hair and I had decided to stop doing that. So I certainly didn't want people to meet me at an event with bright red and you know, with not bright red hair and then find me online and you know, I want it all to match. I'll probably be due for a photo shoot next year because I'm starting to let my silvers grow out so that at some point will necessitate a new shoot because they don't want people to meet. To meet this grey haired lady and then go find this red haired lady or a brown haired lady.
Melanie
Yeah.
Christine
So, yeah, so you can go as hard with it as you want or not. And another thing to remember is it's not locked in forever. It really doesn't have to be because people evolve. And that's another really nice thing about a personal brand. It can just evolve. You know, you can just start incorporating more things. I've been wear, I've been really liking more dark blue and sort of dark denims lately. And so there have been a few professional events where I've worn that. And that's not, you know, previously part of the Christine Gritmon colour scheme. But you know what, I'm a human. I get to wear what I want. And I actually did just do a shoot that has some of that colour in it just so I can officially incorporate some of it. But that's just because I feel like it. It's not because I decided via deep professional analysis that, you know, people, the people need more blue from my brand. No.
Melanie
There you go.
Christine
It's just pretty.
Esther
Now, Christine, are there any industries or like job descriptions that would be harder to come out of with a personal brand in, or is this something that everybody can do?
Christine
Both. I do think everyone can do it because all that is required to meet the definition of a personal brand is to be a person. So there's different levels where you could do it. But I mean, I've definitely met people in certain industries that make them less comfortable with some of the more outward elements of personal branding. Lawyers, for example, some lawyers totally love having a personal brand. Some lawyers feel it's unprofessional. There's also restrictions on what you can and cannot say. Again, financial services is like that. Medicine can be like that. It's about where it's about things that have external parameters on them on some level in terms of the amount of stuff you can talk about regarding what you do. However, I've seen people in all of those industries who have absolutely still had personal brands. They have found other things to say, they've found ways to talk around things, they found ways to talk near things, They've found ways to do it. And it's just a matter of respecting the parameters that are on you. And again, there's people who do things where they have total freedom of what they can talk about, who still keep things very close to the vest because again, the brand has to follow you. And if you're not an over-sharer and if you're not someone who wants to talk about things all the time, that's you and that's what you have to work with and people are doing it.
Melanie
It must be very difficult as an introvert to have a personal brand. Now you mentioned it.
Christine
And yet I know several people who do. I know people were part of their personal brand is introvert. And they talk about it and they talk about, they say, you know, the world wants you to think that the intro, that the extroverts are the ones making everything happen and introverts need to be more extroverted. And they're like, I'm here to tell you that introversion is a superpower and here's why. And that's great that they can. They're often writing it, not saying it, but that's fine, you know, whatever works for you. The brand needs to follow you. You don't need to fit into someone else's brand. In fact, you should not fit in someone else's brand. You should be you. And that'll. That's what will make you stand out from those other people who are not you.
Esther
Well, that sort of brings me on to another question then. And I know, like, we're probably over time, but this is gold dust, guys. You know, listen to Christine Gritmon. So if you have a company and have external, you know, people as, I mean, like not family members, not yourself.
Christine
Yeah.
Esther
Who are posting about the company, should they be allowed to post in their own sort of tone of voice or should they have to follow the company line of this is what we say and we do not reveal more about ourselves. You know, sort of thinking like, I don't know, say Coca Cola. Who's behind the tweets and the posts of Coca Cola? The anonymous people. But do they get to show their, their true personality or would they have to do a personal brand sort of separate to the company they work for?
Christine
Well, it definitely varies. I think the idea that employees should be sort of muzzled is a very old fashioned idea. And I feel like companies who do that, they honestly lose people simply because, I mean part of it is generational. Just try shutting the Gen Z's up. That's not the world they grew up in. And it's trickling into the workplace and millennials are the bosses now increasingly. And so it's a but, but. And employees ultimately don't like feeling like their personal expressive channels belong to the company because they don't belong to the company. Back in, back in the olden days, you know, you'd get a job with a big company, a secure job, if you, first of all, you were a man, you could secure a job with a big company for life. And so you would kind of belong to the company in a lot of ways. And that's not how it works on either end anymore. But also, honestly, there, there are an increasing number of stories now where employees have garnered more goodwill for the companies they work for because they put a human face on it. Sometimes they're more in touch with the way people actually speak and they're able to, you know, so, so it's kind of a twofold thing. I feel like you're getting at. One of them is employees of a company. How is like, should they be kind of muzzled for how they can talk about things? And I think as long as it's within the confident confidentiality agreements, I think it's fine. I don't, I mean you shouldn't badmouth the company, but I think that's in a lot of agreements as well. But I don't think, I don't think the messaging of an individual should be controlled by the company they work for. But, and I think that the backfires on companies who try to do that. But then in addition to that, if you're someone who's running the social for something like Coca Cola, that too is changing. I feel like the people who run social for big companies, they used to be pretty anonymous. Now I know a lot of them and it's been great for the companies because they have these people going on stages and giving Interviews and going on podcasts saying, here's what we're thinking with this strategy, and it's great. I know several people who've kind of become famous, like Zaria Parvez. She's the Duolingo Owl mastermind. And the fact that I know her name off the top of my head, I mean, that's something that wouldn't have happened a few years ago, but I think it's been good because if you have someone you can talk to about that strategy and if you have someone where you could say, oh, that's, you know, an interesting thing you did there, let's talk about it. That's more talking about it. That's happening. I think that attaching individuals to things and letting them have their own voices is nothing but good, because that's so many more people who can hear the message.
Melanie
That's really a mic drop moment just there, isn't it?
Christine
I don't want to drop my mic.
Melanie
Please don't do that.
Christine
Hey, Mic.
Melanie
No, there's always one, isn't there? Thank you so much for coming on today, Christine.
Christine
Thank you for having me.
Melanie
You know, we had you back in what. What episode did you say?
Esther
85.
Christine
Wow.
Melanie
Year two. That was in year two, Christine. So you were long overdue.
Christine
Yeah, I was. I was like 18. No, just kidding. Social. Social media, sorry. Personal branding, I don't think was my thing yet back then. So that's part of why I wanted to come back on. And also because I always love talking to you too. I mean, when we see each other at events, I'm always happy to see you. So I had to get back on.
Esther
Oh.
Christine
Thanks for having me.
Melanie
I have to say, the. The drinks we had at in London, they were.
Christine
Yeah.
Melanie
Rather epic as well. So we must. We must do that again. In fact, we'll probably see you again at AtomaCon, I would assume.
Christine
Oh, definitely, if not before. But I have not missed a single AtomaCon yet and I don't plan to.
Melanie
Yeah, me neither. So. Okay, well, that's all for now, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening to Christine. I do hope you've written down and if you haven't, go back and listen to all the useful top tips you just had from Christine there. We'll be back next week with another podcast, but if you've got any questions, anything that you'd like to pass on to Christine. How do we find you? Because I've just remembered I need to make sure we do this. So Christine, how do we find you? How do we reach you?
Christine
I'm so easy to find. Just try not to find me. No Christine Gritmon. Gritmon is spelled G R I T. Like when something's gritty like sand and then M O N, like Monday. So I'm at gritmon.com I'm Christine Gritmon everywhere and I have my own podcast, let's talk about brand. And that will also tell you how to find me.
Esther
Awesome.
Melanie
Now I'm really gonna go now.
Esther
Bye-bye.
Christine
Bye
Melanie
bye.
Esther
And she waved again.
Melanie
I did. Did you. Did you notice that I had. Yeah. Intrusions.
Christine
Oh, no.
Melanie
Intrusions. Yes. This is recorded live, guys. Yeah, this is. We're not AI. We have. I had people opening doors looking at me go, oh, sorry. And then somebody else coming in going, oh, that's what they meant. Oh, sorry.
Esther
This is why I have a light.
Melanie
They won't let me put a light up.
Esther
Sucks to be you.
