Melanie
Welcome to the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast for all decision makers and action takers. Take it away, Esther.
Esther
And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. Today we're talking about hiring, firing, and letting go. It's a topic that's never easy, but something that we feel has to be discussed because it's something that all businesses, big, small, and everything in between, will go through at one time or another.
Melanie
Especially small businesses, because at times you will find you have to outsource things. You'll have to get a virtual assistant, you'll have to get an accounts person. It's just a matter of fact. And trying to find the right person to work with you that shares your same belief system, same work ethic, can be very, very hard. Now, this is not going to be a long guide of how to do that. We're just talking from personal experience here, just so that you've got some idea of what we've gone through and how you may be able to apply it to yourself.
Esther
Yeah, and just first off the bat, when you are thinking of hiring someone, just know that it's not going to be an instant process. It can be long, drawn-out process because, like Melanie says, you have to find somebody that fits in with your company values, with your ideals, that works with what you need to do And you also have to figure out, will it be permanent? Will it be temporary? Will it be seasonal? Will it be short term, long term? Is it maternity cover? Is it sickness cover? All of these things you have to have in place first and think about it. You also have to know how much you can afford to pay. So there's one thing that some people say, hire first and then figure out how to pay them. But if you can't afford their bills, it's not going to end well. Because I've heard people say this, Hire first and then freeze you up to get more clients in and get more revenue into the business. But if the person that you hire isn't fully aware of all the ins and outs of the software you use, the client base that you have, the computer system problems, etcetera, that you have in place, whatever your business is, then you have to train them up as well, and that will also take time.
Melanie
And I'm sure as an agency, Esther, you can speak for the big difference, the gaping hole between a virtual assistant and employing people internally. Because as you say, the assumption is, is your virtual assistant is already over using the types of tools and equipment that you want them to use, whereas you may have to train people if they come in and use your custom equipment and tools.
Esther
Yes, but also virtual assistants aren't a fae with every single platform out there. So you may be using Asana instead of Trello, and they're more used to Trello, so you're going to have to make adaptations or not hire them based on that and to go with somebody else who does know the platforms that you use, who maybe doesn't have as much experience in another area. You may take months to find someone who fits 90% of the list that you have that needs covering and doing. It may take you a year and you'll find somebody who covers it 100%. You may decide to only look for somebody who covers 50% of what you want them to do and then keep looking while that person is working or learning more about the other systems that you use Because it could be anything from the email platform that you use, the email marketing platform you use, whatever you have them do. You also have to have a really clear idea of what it is that you want from them and how often you want it from them. So, for example, a VA could write blog posts for you or schedule your social media content. But if you just say schedule the social media content without giving specific instructions on, I schedule on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or there's posts that go out on a specific day because they are days of the year or things like that, then they're just going to go, oh, I have six posts to schedule. I have a month to do it in. I'll do them all in the last week.
Melanie
Yeah, that's very, very true. You have this expectation of people that you work with, and a lot of that is in your own head, and you You need to convey that in writing or in a project management tool. With my virtual assistant, I did use Asana as it actually happens. You prefer infinity, don't you, Esther?
Esther
Yes, I do.
Melanie
I use Asana, and I would put down what the work was required and then an end date for it to be done by so that I would be able to check it. You need to clear that all with the people you're going to be working with, making sure they understand it, and that's when you need to check it, that's not when it needs to go out. There's a lot of machinations that go into building a good working relationship with people internally or externally. I actually think, because I've never had anybody stay with me full-time, internally, I've had short bridges of people coming in, so I can't talk about how it works on a long-term basis. I'm sure Esther could She's got her pearls of wisdom there. But I find it's actually harder to work with a virtual assistant because you're given a slot of time with them, and they have to go from how where one person works to how another person works, thinking different formats, different tone of voice, and mistakes happen. Mistakes do happen. We've experienced mistakes, haven't we?
Esther
Oh, yes.
Melanie
But at the end of the day, we have to appreciate that certainly when you're using the likes of a virtual assistant, there's more chance of it happening because they're not being surrounded by your brand and your tone of voice day in, day out.
Esther
Yes. But even when you have people in-house, so to speak, they may be remote. They may be working remotely, like in the case of a lot of my staff work remotely. They work in different time zones, different countries, different languages. Sometimes it's a juggle to get a time that suits everyone to have a team meeting, and you just have to sacrifice some things. Some people wake up super early, some people go to bed super late. Sometimes we work weekends because it's the only time that suits everyone in order to find those times. But something that, whether it's an in-house remote or contracted person, full-time, part-time VA, they need to be aware of your company values. They need to be aware that, especially if you just say, I need posts for whatever, I need publications. I need you to curate content from other people. If they find it from people that you don't particularly agree with or you don't like or you don't have a spark with, then that needs to be conveyed as well. You need to say, these are the people, or give them a list of people that you follow or that you engage with, that you agree with their their thoughts and their topics, or say, Stay away from these ones, but try to find me some new ones that I might be interested in. Otherwise, it can seem quite stale as well if it's just who they know or who they think or who they're It has to be that constant input. And as we know, things change so quickly and so rapidly, especially in social media. We're talking here about hiring somebody to help you maybe with your content. Things change so quickly that information that they put out six months ago may not be relevant now. If they're still finding that same type of content or if they're sharing stuff from 2020 and we're now four or five years later, then it might not even be relevant.
Melanie
There's a lot of things we need to take into account, not just their qualifications, the last place they worked, but what their experiences. We were just talking before we started recording today about how each generation has a different way of talking and disseminating information. The amount of people, and I know I'm speaking for Esther, and there's a lot of people here who are listening as well now who go, Yeah. People tend to give the young one, the young person in their family or group, the management of the social media platform because they assume that they know how to do it better. In some ways, I won't lie to you, they'll do it faster, they'll use better tools and strategies, but by golly, they will not sound like you. They won't use, my golly, for a start. They will use completely different phrasing, different language, even the way they respond to comments. Even if you've approved all the wording in It's an initial post, I can almost guarantee you the way they respond to comments will be very, very different.
Esther
Yes.
Melanie
There's a lot to take into account. Now, we've spent a lot of time talking about hiring.
Esther
Hiring, yes.
Melanie
We need to move over to firing and letting go as well.
Esther
It's a bit more difficult when it comes to the firing and the letting go. Now, there's times, like we said, if it's contracted work, if it's part-time, temporary, if there's a natural end to these things, if it's seasonal, then you're coming in for three months, you're coming in for six months, you're coming in for the nine months, one year maternity cover whatever it is. People assume that there be that change in that end. But if it's an open contract or they've got past the initial settling in phase, because all of these contracts should have If it's not working for either party, like a get out of jail free card thing, so to speak. Where after a few months, there's a chit chat and how are you feeling? How are we feeling? And let's see if we can either improve things or go our separate ways. But if you've been in a relationship and had a higher for three years, four years or longer, then it's it's a lot harder to come to an end of that agreement or that contract or that working relationship because they may feel that they're completely comfortable and they're in a job set for life thing. A lot of those don't exist anymore, but they may feel that they are set and that there's no issues, whereas management may feel they haven't evolved, they haven't kept up.
Melanie
That thing is management's issue, though, because they flagged those issues earlier.
Esther
Oh, yes.
Melanie
Which is why these monthly reviews become so important. I'll let you continue.
Esther
Yeah. So like I was saying, management may feel that things aren't changing, and even though they have spoken to the person about things that need to change and adapt or different ways of doing things, whether maybe when you first hired them, you specifically sat down and said, I like double spacing after my full stop, and they've stopped doing that.
Melanie
You won't let that go, will you?
Esther
No, I won't. But it comes back to the whole, they need to sound like you. They need to look like you online. They need to be portraying you and your company online. If you put down specific things and they stop doing them, that can be a cause for dismissal. If you've reminded them several times of, remember, this is what we do. This is our company guidelines. These are our social media guidelines. These are our terms and conditions. These are our, specifically saying and pointing out when they go off track. It needs to be, I can't even think of the word in English. I apologize. There needs to be constant feedback, whether it's a weekly meeting, whether it's a monthly review. All of these things need to be brought up in a timely manner, because otherwise you can't just turn around and go, oh, that's it. Thanks. Bye.
Melanie
So two months ago, you did this. That's too late. You got to tell them straight away.
Esther
Yeah. It's never easy to let someone go, whether it's the natural end of things, because a lot of people feel, oh, well, even though they were only here to do this, I may be able to find them a space and keep them on or work them in. It's tough to let people go. It's really tough to fire them. But if it's-.
Melanie
It depends. If they're damaging things, it's very easy to fire them.
Esther
Well, yes. But it's never an easy conversation to have with somebody because, at least in my head, I'm going, Well, they had all these plans and they need the money, and do they have another job lined up? Could they get another? I feel responsible, obviously, for my staff and for what happens to them even after they're not working with us anymore. So it's horrible. It's a horrible feeling for the person letting someone go.
Melanie
But there are bodies out there that can help govern this. It doesn't matter which country you're listening to. Each and every single country will have a legal side of things where you have to adhere to to protect the rights of your member of staff. You, believe it or not, here are high up there to protect you as well. Although we didn't cover it in the hiring part, there are bodies out there that will also make sure that you've got the right paperwork, the right contingencies that protect you from any assumptions that your member of staff may make about pensions, about perks and policies.
Esther
We didn't even go into any of that in the whole when you're hiring.
Melanie
I mean, it's a two-way thing. It's important, of course, that you protect the rights of the staff. But there are protections in place for you as the employer as well. Like I said, neither of us are specialists in this field. We're going by personal experience only. But we wanted to cover this because it's something that every single business has to do at some stage. Even just asking for a print run of some of your flyers or business cards, you're basically implying that that person is working for you. You're paying them for their product or their service, and you have an expectation that it will be delivered on time in good quality and with all the promises that were made at the initial time of quotation. It's not quite the same as hiring and firing, but there is that expectation that that person will deliver. That's exactly what you're expecting from a member of staff as well. You're paying them for their services and you expect them to deliver.
Esther
Yeah. Using that same analogy, you wouldn't just go to the first printer that you come across on Google or on the street. You would do your research and you would ask other people for their opinions. You would read the reviews, you would delve into a bit deeper, you would talk to the printer, you would see if it's a good match in terms of they understand you and you understand them, what you're needing and what your expectations are. In the same way, you wouldn't just jump in and hire the first person that applies to work with you. It will be a long It's a drawn-out process, but it can be worth it.
Melanie
It's like the letting go as well, especially if you've had somebody there with you for a few years. That can be hard because you don't want to let them go, but your business needs needs you to let them go. As long as you're honest with them and you give them some forewarning that things aren't going so well or our business partner said we have to pivot and we have to go this direction. If you can give people time to look for other work and give them a good amount of notice and that stuff, you're not doing far wrong. It's just all about people management. You've got to expect project, how do you want to be treated if you were in a similar circumstance? That's what I would think.
Esther
Exactly. Well, like Melanie says, there are government bodies out there. There are other people who can talk to you about the legalities of stuff and fill you in on other things. If you have any questions about the processes that we went through when hiring and firing and letting go, feel free to reach out. We are here to give our opinion on how things have gone. And we can also point in the direction of a couple of people that we know that can help with the legalities and stuff, at least in our country of the United Kingdom and Ireland.
Melanie
Would every single country have a citizens' advice Advice Bureau or something like it, do you think?
Esther
I presume so. I couldn't tell you.
Melanie
I'm sure you could go to something that's like a Citizens Advice Bureau in your country because that's entirely free.
Esther
Yes.
Melanie
And even maybe the local department or state body that teaches and trains people. Here we have the local Enterprise Office. What do you have in the UK?
Esther
What's it called?
Melanie
It was so long ago that you used it.
Esther
I know. It really was. But there are things in the local Enterprise Centres that can help, whether they have courses or whatever. They can point you in the right direction. And in the United Kingdom, I can highly recommend the Federation of Small Businesses, FSB, and they will point you in the direction of everything that you need. So that's it for today, guys. We'll be back next week with another podcast. Until then. Bye-bye.
Melanie
Bye, guys. Have a great time.
No, you did that again.
Esther
Did what?
Melanie
You ended. You keep stealing my ends. You did the beginning.
Esther
Okay, okay dear.
Melanie
Stop nicking my ends.
