Melanie
The Monday Morning Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Esther of IPA Group, bringing premier online promotion to your business.
Esther
And Melanie of STOMP Social Media Training, who empowers business owners to manage social media and marketing for themselves. And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. Today, we're joined by Libby Langley, business coach, podcaster and author, and we're talking about marketing as an autistic introvert. Welcome, Libby.
Libby
Hi. Thanks for having me along.
Esther
You're very Welcome to be here with us. It's a very niche topic that we're talking about, a very interesting topic today. Why marketing as an autistic introvert?
Libby
Well, because I'm both. So it's something I can talk about very comfortably. I think it's quite an interesting topic to share with your listeners because even if they're not diagnosed or don't necessarily feel that they fall into either camp, there'll be certainly things that people will recognise about the challenges that you have as a business owner.
Melanie
There's a certain predilection that you have to do a certain amount of things in order to market at your business, correct? There is an assumption that certain things have to be done. How can we support somebody who has been diagnosed with ADHD, ASD, or anything, and help them feel more confident in their marketing, Libby?
Libby
Well, for me and the way I work with my clients, it's about making everything as simple as possible, doing what you're comfortable with, with a slight push, we all need a slight push, but doing what you're comfortable with and just doing lots more of that. So for example, I've always worked in digital marketing. I first started teaching people how to use social media back in 2009. So that's always been my world. But I also find it really overwhelming because it never stops. It never stops. It never stops. And that's something that as both an autistic person, ADHD and introvert, you got to learn how to manage that. So for me, the type of marketing that I really love is my podcast. And being on podcasts as a guest like this and speaking at events because they're one and done but last forever, which for me, suits the way that my brain works and the energy levels I have and all of that.
Esther
So as an introvert in that part of it, because we're talking about autistic introverts and marketing as both autistic and an introvert. How does the introverted part work if you're speaking at events?
Libby
Well, for me, I absolutely love that moment in the spotlight. I find it fantastic, and I know that I can give so much value across in that. And it's the culmination of all my years of experience in business. But the way I manage it is I rest beforehand, I rest afterwards. I wouldn't go and speak at an and then immediately go out for dinner or be running a mastermind day the next day or something like that. It's really about energy levels and absolutely giving it all, mentally and physically, giving it all when you need to and then just when you're finished. A lot of that comes from the experience and longevity of being in business, I guess.
Melanie
I've got to ask, there's a certain amount of overwhelm, isn't there? That has to be coped with. For sure. Let's just say, I know normally we talk about people who've got a medium to long term business, but let's talk about start-ups in this instance here. What strategies or work do they need to put in in order to help them go up there for the first time. I mean, I'm sure it matters on the size of the audience as well and what platform. But any time that you're standing up there, and you don't have to be on any spectrum to feel like that.
Libby
No.
Melanie
You really don't. But because it is a different way, a different way of feeling and thinking, is there anything that you can suggest that will help people prepare better for it?
Libby
I think it's just... Some people, it's just never going to be something that they enjoy doing. I've always done it. I've always done presentations in jobs and just... I don't know. I just like being the one at the front who the stuff. I guess I realise now that partly that's the autistic side of me. Being able to prove what you know is really great. But it's not to say it doesn't come without nerves. I did a talk to an annual conference in September '23, and there were 200 people in the audience. And I think that that's my biggest audience. And it's quite frightening because there's... I mean, thankfully, the lights were so bright that I couldn't really see the audience, but I still try and make it interactive by asking questions, getting people to raise their hands. I don't just want to go and bombard people with stuff, with information. So it doesn't make much difference in terms of your prep and/or your nerves or adrenaline with 20 people as it does with 200, you've still got to prepare, you've still got to talk about something that you know what it is, and you've still got to be able to think on your feet. And that's where the ADHD autism is like a gift, because thinking, being able to think and change direction is something that is just there. It's just how my brain works. So it's the same as anything. It's prepare. Know what you're going to talk about and talk confidently. The top tip, I guess, is to remember that you're the one on the stage. Nobody knows what you're going to say apart from you. If you get lost, go off on a tangent. It does not matter because nobody knows anyway. So talk confidently, stick your time limit and enjoy it. Yeah.
Esther
Stickin to the start-ups, say they're not going to be going on to stage, but more in the getting themselves out there into networking groups, into meeting other people, introducing themselves in their business. A lot of people, even those that haven't either been diagnosed or aren't on the spectrum, can feel a real fear when they are faced with people that they don't know, people being thrown into a room, especially an introvert, being thrown into a room of people that you have no idea who they are or what they do or what they're thinking of you. And how can you overcome that? And we're not talking about being up on stage in front of 20 or 200 people. We're talking about walking into a room with maybe five other people in it.
Libby
Yeah, I mean, what I always do, and I didn't really realise that this is a coping strategy until my autism diagnosis, and then I'm like, Oh, now it all becomes clear. I am I always early, so I always get to somewhere early so that I can go to the loo and so that I can be first in the room. Therefore, I can choose a seat that I'm comfortable with. For me, if I'm first in the room, the other people coming in, they're coming in one and two and three, and you can talk to them individually and just say hi and, oh, wasn't the parking terrible? Or whatever it is that is the perfectly normal British conversation. And then it's much less daunting, whereas if you arrive late, I mean, that just sends me over the edge. Walking into a room that's already full of people is something that I don't want to do. So I make sure that I'm always early for things. That's how I would cope.
Esther
And you were telling us before we started recording that you were diagnosed quite late. You weren't diagnosed as a child. So can you explain a little bit about that process?
Libby
Yeah, a couple of years ago, I started to realise that I was probably ADHD. There were a lot... A community that I'm in, there were a lot of people talking about it and sharing experiences. I'm like, Yeah, get all that, understand all that. I was quite comfortable with that. And then I went to a talk at the Leadmill in Sheffield that was about ADHD. Somebody who suffers terribly with it and is on med, so a different level to me. And the person sitting next to me said, oh, you should get an autism test. I'm like, Why? And she said, Because of this, this, this, this, and this. I'm like, Oh. I did the assortment of online tests that are available that you do before you have the assessment, and then paid privately to have the assessment and was diagnosed. Yeah, I was 48, and it absolutely knocked me for six because realising that I'd been coping with this for my entire life and all of the strategies I'd put in place just to, I don't know, get out of bed and function in the morning, I didn't really realise the levels to which I'd done this. And working for myself, I'd had a really successful career. And then coming up for what was 11 and a half years, I'd been working for myself and how the extra pressure there must have been on me to be able to do that. So I went through a phase of, I suppose, grief that I'd got where I'd got despite all this. And If I'd known earlier, life would have been easier, but also then a liberation and an understanding that actually, so if I just change that and just change that, everything will be not better, but easier and less pressure. It's really helped me in my business because I don't have a choice as to whether I simplify stuff or systemize stuff. I need to do that. I'm really good at helping my clients do that because a lot of them suspect they have ADHD or even diagnosed. So I get that and I can help them much more with that. It makes it easy to be kind to myself. At home as well, my husband's superb and incredibly understanding. It's like, right, if something's difficult, like if a train gets cancelled, that's the stuff that I find really difficult because I've planned everything. Oh my God, I'm going to be late. I can't get there. If I have a meltdown or something, it's fine. We're just like, Oh, she's having a meltdown. She'll just have this meltdown, then she'll be fine. We understand why, and it's the understanding why that's made the big difference. A huge, huge difference in my life as a whole. And I guess that's why I talk about it. It doesn't make any difference externally, really, other than my understanding of other people, but just the, right, you're not going to be able to ever change the way that you feel. So how can you change the surroundings, the business, the life structure in order to be able to accommodate you better? And that's when can the business growth really happens.
Melanie
It sounds like there's a huge amount of acceptance that you've had to partake in here as well. But do you find that there is a greater understanding and an acceptance in the working place, in the workplace in general, of other business owners or companies that collaborate with you? Because you said the term meltdown. Which can help people imagine a meltdown, which could sound quite catastrophic. Do you think there is a greater acceptance of better understanding than there was than you possibly imagined?
Libby
Oh, I mean, from three years ago, five years ago, yeah, it's perfectly acceptable. It's a horrible word to use, isn't it? But to just say I'm ADHD, I'm autistic, It doesn't... In the entrepreneurial world I'm talking about, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever as far as I've discovered people. Since I started talking about it, I've had so many people come to me to say, Thank God you're talking about this, and all of this resonates with me, and you've really helped me. So that's been fantastic. I'm not a massive advocate thing, but just talking about my experience, because I talk about my experience with every aspect of life and business. But in the corporate world, I imagine that adaptations that are needed are perhaps, for the most part, not quite put in place. But it's a world that I'm quite distanced from now. I've not had a job for 12 years. But I think it's becoming more acceptable. There is funding available. There's the government's Access to Work scheme, which is great, which is for self-employed or employed people. You-.
That's in the UK, just to stipulate.
Sorry, that's in the UK, which is a fantastic resource. I find it all quite normalised. I say to people just in passing, not everybody, but just if it comes up in conversations, Oh, I'm autistic, blah, blah, blah, whatever the point of the thing was. I've never had really a negative experience. A few people said some things that they didn't believe that I was because they've never seen it. It's like, Yeah, but you see what I show you, and that women are very good at masking. You don't know what happens behind the scenes. You don't know that I'm crying because someone has got their radio on too loud outside and I can't cope with it. People don't know about that. So the answer is yes and no, I guess. It's certainly not something to be ashamed of or not to talk about, but whether in employment, the adaptations and acceptance is as wide as we would hope, I don't know. Probably not.
Esther
I think it is a topic that there's a lot of stigma around, or people see the Hollywood version of autism and the ones, like you were saying, the guy who was medicated because it was... Because there's a whole range, there's a whole spectrum.
Libby
There is.
Esther
I read somewhere recently that it's more likely The more people have it, then realise that they have it. And like you're saying, women, especially, masking boys will get diagnosed as being hyperactive, and they show it more, or they, in inverted commas, act out more. But girls going through school, especially, can be just a little, Oh, she was so nice and quiet. And if you look back over those report cards that we all probably have in our houses, we could actually to get a few trigger warnings from those going, I wonder if that's why I now do this or I wonder if that's why... You're saying you didn't realise that that was why you always showed up early for networking meetings. Other people might show up late on purpose so they don't have to speak to anyone in the thing. And they just come in as the meeting has started or whatever. So there's so many different things. You can't label someone as autistic and then try to put them in a box with all the other people who are on the spectrum because it would be like, I don't know, putting all footballers in the one in the same class as Messi or, that's my life is football.
Melanie
Can you tell she has boys?
Esther
The analogies I use. I have boys. But I mean, there are lots of things that as a general public, we don't realise. And lots of things that maybe, like you say, your neighbours maybe don't realise that they're playing their music too loud and it's annoying you, or they're fixing at the street in front of you and you maybe have to take yourself off for two or three days. These are things that unless you voice them, then people aren't going to know. So how can we, as marketers, market to introverted autistic people?
Libby
To me, it's just no different than... It's no different than anything else. You craft your copy and market your business to the people that you want to work with. And there's a niche for everybody. There's coaches out there or businesses out there. That absolutely it's an introvert's worst nightmare, and they are the business owners. They're introverts are the business owners' worst nightmare because they're not, I don't know, necessarily outspoken enough or dynamic enough or, I don't know, confident enough or whatever, risk-taking enough, all the things that us introverts are seen to not be. But I don't think... I suppose the thing that I would say is just to be kind to people and know that everybody is different and know that whatever people say isn't necessarily what's going on. So it depends on what your business is and how you work. I work one to one or in mastermind days with my clients. So I spend time really talking to them and really getting to know them. But if you're running a service-based business that is for 300 people at once, it's impossible to do that. So that's in your marketing message that has the appropriate level of kindness or explanation or quickness of decision, whoever it is that you want to appeal to it. To me, it's no different than anything. It doesn't make any difference. It's just about choosing your niche and talking to them in the language that they want to hear.
Melanie
Never a truer word spoken, I've got to say. I like the fact that you're, and this is not the correct phrasing, but I hope you see where I'm going with this, you're unashamably talking about this loudly and clearly and explicitly, because that's taking away that it shouldn't be talked about. It really should. I think if we can continue this conversation more publicly, There'll be more people who think, Well, heck, well, if she can do it, so can I. I think finding the right tribe helps. I mean, it took me years to find the right tribe for me and my business. So how do you go about finding the right tribe for people who have autism and who want to publicly market themselves and are introverts?
Libby
Trial and error. Years of that. No, I mean, the thing that I've learnt... I suppose I did do it to start with, but certainly, as I... Blimey, I mean, I'm twelve years older than when I started my business as well. I went through a divorce, I've moved house, I've married someone else, I've got diagnosed autistic. There's such a lot that's happened in that time. But the thing that has been the continual growth and development is that I'm just me. I can't pretend to be anyone else. I think I've tried in certain ways along it. But this is just me. And some people like the honesty and find it refreshing and the fact that I'll just go straight to the point and cut all the rest out. That really works for some of my clients and some of my audience in my podcast. But for other people, they don't like it. They need to be nurtured more. They need to be handheld more. But I I'm not very good at doing that, and I don't really like doing that. And the way that I run my business, and certainly in my podcast, which is a real good free resource for business owners. So in my podcast, I just share like what's and all what I've been through, the lessons I've learned, how you can apply that to your business. And I've never been shy of talking about when things have gone horribly wrong and what that's meant and right. So this is what I've learned. This is what I suggest you do, not the path I took. That's just the way I've always been. I'm more and more like that all the time now. I don't mind sharing when it's all gone horribly wrong at all because it's just part of life in business, which is why that's the name of my podcast and that's the name of my book, because you can't get away from how much having a business is a massive part of your life.
Melanie
Well, you beat me to it because I was about to ask you what was the name of your podcast. Life in business is open for everybody, but I've seen people with autism or ADHD or anything on the spectrum, basically, would benefit from hearing from.
Libby
Yeah, not necessarily... Yes, but-.
Melanie
It's literally anybody.
Libby
It's any business owner, really. But small business owners. And really people who are not fans of the hustle and grind, the 24/7. It's very much a gentler, smarter, easier way to earn more money in your business. Yeah.
Esther
Fabulous. So people can contact you at libbylangley.com or find you on your podcast. I presume it's on all major stations like ourselves. And have you any other things coming up this year? Any resources, anything that you're going to be talking at?
Libby
A resource that people might like is my book, also called Life in Business: Easy Ways to Work, Less, Learn, More, and Embrace True Happiness. It's available on Amazon worldwide. And that's a really good resource because it's written in an easy to digest format. No lesson is more than... No chapter is more than a page or so long, page and a half long. So you can dip in, dip out. And that will help people to get clarity in their minds and run their business in the way that they want to run their business, not the way they should run their business. And if people want to work with me, they can book a 30 minute Mini Clarity, what's it called? Quick Clarity Boost. You see, my brain's thinking four steps ahead. Quick Clarity Boost, 30 minute session with me, or I run Mastermind Days in the UK every month. In person.
Melanie
I just wanted to clarify, do you do any of this online? Because our audience would be quite global. So could people contact you and do any of this session training with you online as well?
Libby
Yes, The Mastermind days, they're in person, so not that. But the quick clarity boost calls, they're all online.
Melanie
Perfect. Well, thank you, Libby. I put out a call on a Facebook group that we're all a part of asking for people who do anything different in marketing. And you certainly do, Libby. I just wanted to highlight the tremendously good work and all the resources that are out there for people of every level of capability. There's literally nothing nobody can do. If you want to do it, you can flippin' do it. There are people like Libby who can help you do it. So thank you again for your time today, Libby. Very, very happy to meet you. And that's all we have time for for today, but we'll be back very soon with another podcast.
