Melanie
The Monday Morning Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Esther of IPA Group, bringing premier online promotion to your business.
Esther
And Melanie of STOMP Social Media Training, who empowers business owners to manage social media and marketing for themselves. And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. Today, we're joined by Penny, the Wild Bookkeeper. We'll get into that in a minute. We're talking about the wild side of bookkeeping. Welcome, Penny.
Penny
Thank you very much for having me. So lovely to meet you both.
Esther
So I don't know about you, but it sounds like a little bit of an oxymoron, the wild and bookkeeping. I mean, it's not a couple of words that you would really put together. So how did we get to be wild?
Penny
They definitely aren't something that people expect. Most people think of bookkeeping as a very staid data entry, the boring side of things. But actually, modern technology means that we've got AI, cloud accounting, that means the boring data entry. A lot of that can be automated. So we can get a lot more information out of figures now for business owners and give them real up to date time information that they can use to base decisions on on their The days of waiting till nine months after to get your tax figures done is long gone. So if you really want to run your business properly, you need to have that daily up to date figures in your business. The wild side comes, I love wild swimming, particularly in the winter, the colder the better. When I looked to rebrand my business, we were trying to come up with all sorts of different names. I'd been through a divorce. I wanted to go from my married name of Allard to my maiden name of Martins, and I needed to get my name out of my business. I spent most of the lockdown trying to come up with something and nothing was suitable. Teenagers are great when you're trying to rename a business. Mum, you can't possibly use that. I decided to get some professional help. And while I was talking to Philippa Haynes, Insight 101, a story of a photograph that my daughter took of me swimming in Wales in Barafundle Bay in the winter. It was freezing cold. Everybody else is in thick coats and hats. And I've stripped off to my swimming costume. I'm standing in the sea, didn't bother putting hat and goggles on because it was far too rough. And there's a big wave about to engulf me. And my daughter took a really good photo of me just standing there, braced, ready for this wave to hit. And I used it a lot at the time as a profile picture on social media, just to remind me, if you can get in this freezing cold sea and face the wave, you can do anything. Because I was really low point back then. I didn't know. My business was tiny. I only had a handful of clients, and it was, do I go and get a proper job as everybody was telling me to do? Or can I grow my business? Is it possible to be a single mum grow a business, and earn enough money to pay a mortgage and support three children and myself and have a reasonable lifestyle. So I had choices made.
Esther
That's the question we ask ourselves daily.
Penny
Yeah.
Esther
Daily. I mean, Melanie and I are married, and we still ask that What are we doing?
Penny
Yeah. Is it possible? So this photograph came up in the conversation I had with Philippa, and she said, Right, that's it. I've got it. Because actually, there is so much in business and facing challenges and the things we do in swimming that resonate. I was facing a huge challenge about to be swamped by a wave. The same happens in business as well. We're often faced by challenges and we have to work out how we're going to face those challenges and survive and come out the other side. Very often, the answer is that you have to know your numbers. You have to understand what's going on in your business. And it doesn't matter how difficult or scary it is, we have to face those challenges. It's really key if you want your business to survive. So that's really where, while bookkeeping came from, it's just getting out there in the wild, facing the challenges and helping business owners to understand their numbers.
Melanie
Well, I challenge any of our listeners to have a similar brand story. I can't imagine any of our listeners are anywhere near as mad for a start.
Penny
Most people know you're the mad one that does all the videos in the sea.
Melanie
So just really quickly, what is the difference between bookkeeping and accounting?
Penny
That's a really good question and one that gets asked a lot. I actually started off training to be an accountant. I did my ACCA exam, so Certified Accountant, and I had almost finished the exams when I had my children, but I trained in industry, and doing that after the children didn't really work. It involved long hours, particularly at month end, commuting into London. I decided that actually the part of business I really enjoyed was the day-to-day nitty-gritty doing the accounts, being part of a business rather than working in audit or year-end where you're taking somebody's accounts at the end of the year and just doing the tax computation. I wanted to be more involved in the business. I think possibly because my dad had a business, so that's where I started was doing his books. Really, a bookkeeper is looking at the nuts and bolts of the day-to-day transactions in the business, but there's more to it than data entry. If you look for a qualified bookkeeper, something that most people don't realise is that term accountant and bookkeeper isn't licensed or registered. Anybody can call themselves an accountant and anybody can call themselves a bookkeeper.
Melanie
I had no idea.
Penny
Yeah. So when you're choosing-.
Esther
I'm scared.
Penny
I've seen some really scary accounts from people that come to me thinking they've been done by an accountant and they have no qualifications at all. It's really interesting. It's really important when you're going to work with a professional to ask them what qualifications they have and which professional body they're supervised by. I'm supervised by the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers, hence I'm a bookkeeper, but I'm actually level four qualified. With level four with ICB, you can complete year-end accounts, corporation tax returns, self-assessment tax returns. There are additional qualifications to cover all of those modules. So in effect, there isn't really anything that I can't do as a bookkeeper that somebody else who is an accountant is able to do apart from audit. The difference is accountants tend to look at the year-end and the bigger picture. And for some of our larger clients, they will have both us as a bookkeeper and an accountant. So the accountant will look at the bigger picture, the strategy, the tax situation, whereas bookkeeping is more looking at the day-to-day transactions, the integral running of the business. That said, I've actually got a charter tax adviser who works within my practise, or she's working towards us as a charter tax adviser exam, she's ATT. But Esther said we are able to offer that tax provision to our clients as well as an additional add-on. Bookkeeping is the day-to-day.
Esther
Everything in-house.
Penny
Yeah. Accounting is looking at things at the year end. We tend to become part of the team of our clients' businesses. We're very much an outsourced accounts department. That's very interesting. If you've got a business and you're not big enough to be able to afford your own accounts department, then what you want is a bookkeeper because they'll work with you day to day and provide you that service, whereas your accountant is somebody you just go to at the end of the year to have your final accounts done and your tax return done.
Melanie
Yeah.
Esther
Part of what you do in terms of your own marketing to get new clients is you merge your love for bookkeeping and your love for open water, cold water swimming.
Penny
Yes.
Esther
Why? I mean, it would take all of my concentration just to get in the water, let alone know what I'm going to talk about and be recorded while in the water.
Penny
That is the challenge. And when When I first started doing it, it took numerous takes to get it right. Obviously, when you're in freezing cold water, you don't want to be-.
Esther
Chatter.
Penny
Yeah, you need to get it-.
Esther
Teeth are chattering.
Penny
You need to get it done. I started open water swimming in 2012. I've been doing it a long time before I rebranded the business, which is why Wild was such a good brand for me because it's very authentically me. It's me. It's what I do. I love it because it then meant I could talk about my passion for cold water swimming at the same time as my business. Whereas before I thought, I need to keep who I am separate from my business because what is swimming got to do with bookkeeping? You know, nothing really. But having that brand story meant I could bring my swimming into my brand, which actually brings myself in. And so I can be far more authentically me, which I think is really important when you're doing your marketing.
Esther
Because we do tend to keep things separate.
Penny
Yeah. So it means people can get to know me better. I'd already been doing the swimming for ages, which is where the brand came from. And the day that we launched while bookkeeping was the first of October. And that happens to be the day that dogs are allowed back on the beach here in South End. They're banned during the summer. I'd watch something on Facebook or somewhere and it said, You need to be doing videos if you want to promote your business. Video is really important. I went down to the beach. I thought, Here we go. I've got a new business. I need to I need to be brave. I need to do video. I just spoke into my phone and just said, Hey, first of October, a really important day. It's the launch of Wild Bookkeeping and Archie, my dog, can come to the beach, so I can now combine my dog walk and my swimming. I stuck it out on Instagram as a reel and it did really, really well. Then my teenagers brought me down to earth and said, Mum, it's just because you've never posted a reel before, don't get excited. It was just the first one. The algorithm is trying to tempt you to do more, which was true. But people that did see it, I got really positive feedback and comments. Someone said, You ought to do weekly bookkeeping tips from the beach. So I thought, that was a good idea. I started off without really thinking how I was going to come up with sufficient bookkeeping tips to do it every week for a year. But I found that actually my clients often would ask questions during the week. I think, Well, surely you know that. But actually, they don't because they're not bookkeepers. They haven't studied and qualified and done the exams. So that really became the basis for what I would put out each week. So things that have gone wrong, problems that clients were having, questions that they had asked me. And I found that this library of videos I've put together is actually brilliant because I can email those out to clients that ask questions in the future. And originally I was taking a photograph of myself in the sea and then splicing that into the video that I'd recorded on the beach on my phone. I've got a son that's quite good at editing and that sort of thing. And then my waterproof camera broke and I thought, you know what? Let's just take up a notch. So I invested in a GoPro so that I could video myself in the water and had a go. It's a bit of it... Well, my son tells me it's a nightmare when it's really rough and windy because it takes him a lot longer to edit the audio, but everybody loves it because there's something about watching me about to be drowned by a wave that seems to keep people's attention. And I would say, yeah, the hardest thing is trying to remember, because obviously, if you're recording on camera, then you can have script in front of you and you can say, I'm going to talk about this, this, this and this. Whereas when I'm going in the water, it's just me and my GoPro. Before I get in the water, I have to think, What am I going to talk about? What are the main bullet points? Remember those, get in the water and then hit record on the GoPro, record it, try not to stumble because it needs to be done in one take. Or if I think I've got it wrong, I can't really listen to it back either, so I need to do another take. And then when I get out the water, try and make sure which one I want to use. But they've been really popular. They've got me known. I'm now known as the, Oh, you're the mad one that does swimming on LinkedIn. Or I had somebody at a count text. I was chatting, oh, it's you. I didn't recognise you with your clothes on, which is a really odd thing to be greeted at an accounting conference.
Melanie
Oh my God.
Esther
I hope they said it in context. I hope they were explaining to other people.
Penny
And then I spoke at Accountex North in Manchester in September on the topic of sustainability. And my opening slide was talking about the problem that we have with pollution in the sea. I'm thinking, Well, what can I use as my opening slide? I had a photograph of myself in my swimming costume on the large screen at Accountex. If you told me a few years ago that I would be appearing on the large screen at Accounting Conference in my swimming costume, never in a million years. But hey, I did it. It went down really well. The talk was remembered. I think it just gives it something a bit different. Not many people will combine swimming and wild swimming with bookkeeping. And it's looking at that challenge, that adventure, and it just makes the brand really authentic because it's me and it's memorable because it's a bit different. I don't think there are many people prepared to get into the water when it's one degree and dig for tax advice.
Melanie
It's down to a lot of confidence, isn't it? It's down to the fact that you know that this is perceived potentially as a bit of a dry subject, so you show them how to get wet with bookkeeping. Have you found, because you're using this particular method, has it niched your audience in any way? Do you look at your analytics at all?
Penny
I don't think so. There's a lot of people within the accounting industry are following me now. So although they're not my ideal clients, it raises my profile in the industry. Actually, I've had other bookkeepers and accountants say they find my tips useful and they give them ideas on how to explain things to their clients. And it's encouraging people to do more video. I think people are quite scared to do video. It raises my profile in the accounting industry and I'm starting to get invitations onto podcasts and speaker events. I'm speaking in Birmingham at the NEC at the Festival of Accounting and Bookkeeping.
Melanie
There's a festival in accounts?
Penny
Oh, there is, It's going to be at home.
Melanie
Oh my God.
Esther
More oxymorons.
Penny
Bookkeepers and accountants know how to party. It's good. There's the Digital Accountancy show as well. That has laser light shows and things going on during as well. We, we can party. It's not just all dry stuff in accounting.
Esther
I have the wrong accountant then.
Penny
It's helped raise my profile, which obviously is really good for my marketing in attracting clients. It gives you your credibility. I was at a networking event last night with non-accountants that I network with, and all of them were talking about the fact that they know that I've won awards for my bookkeeping and my accounting for both social media and my practise. So yeah, it adds credibility to you. When I've had clients come along, very often they've come to me because they've seen my videos and they like the fact that I can make accounting easily accessible them. They can understand the concepts I'm talking to them. And I think that's because I take the questions from clients and that's what I put out there. I'm not trying to be clever or use jargon. It's just a question that a client has asked me and I'm just answering it in video form.
Melanie
Can I ask? You're obviously very good at creating all these videos, but how are you creating a sales or marketing funnel? Are you getting people through to an email list or are you getting subscribers on your YouTube? How is it converting for you?
Penny
That's something I need to work on, actually, if I'm honest. The email funnel and the YouTube. Youtube, initially, I set up incorrectly. My son has just taken everything down off of my old... I managed to have three different YouTube channels or two different YouTube channel. I don't know how I did it. He's just taken all of that down, re-catalogued everything into playlists, and that's just been uploaded. There's a brand new YouTube channel which has got a catalogue of about 80 videos on it, which are now all put into different playlists according to the topic and the business that they're aimed at. If anybody would like to go and find, well, bookkeeping on YouTube and subscribe, that would be fantastic. There's loads of resources on there.
Melanie
Look at that for a call to action, you superstar.
Penny
On my website, I have the videos on my YouTube. They feed through to my website. When people go to my website, and I get a lot of inquiries through my website, but when people go to my website, go there, they're immediately taken and they can see those YouTube videos on there. So it gives them an idea of who it is that they're working with and reassures them that they can understand we're going to be speaking to them in their language. I have got a download on my website for a pricing template because I do a workshop for local craft businesses every year, and I find they really struggle with pricing. So I put together a spreadsheet for them, which is applicable to any business, really, to look at how you can put your pricing together. So-.
Melanie
Free download?
Penny
That's available as a free download on my website.
Melanie
Excellent. There you go, ladies and gents.
Penny
But I find a lot of business comes through LinkedIn, so I'm gaining traction on LinkedIn. I've got a lot of followers on LinkedIn, so I think a lot of business owners are on LinkedIn.
Esther
Are you in your swimsuit in your picture in LinkedIn as well? This is...
Penny
So currently my picture on LinkedIn is me in a dry robe with my Christmas hat on. But I appear in my videos every single week in my swimsuit on LinkedIn. So if you're scrolling through LinkedIn and you see somebody mad talking about tax in a swimsuit, that's me.
Esther
Because normally LinkedIn people say, oh, you have to be your most professional. You have to be all almost become someone else. And your profile picture has to be professional. It has to be this and it has to be that. And basically the the formal headshot of in your suit and tie and whatever else that's going on.
Penny
I would beg to differ-.
Esther
You're just breaking all the moulds here, Penny.
Penny
It is. I think your headshot on LinkedIn does need to be your head, hence why my swimming costume isn't in my headshot because you've only got a small place. And when it appears on your mobile phone, if it's a full body picture, they're not going to be able to see you. But I think the thing with LinkedIn is it's really important to be you. I regard LinkedIn as going to a networking meeting. So if I walk into a networking meeting and I'm going to have breakfast or lunch with some business owners or potential clients or contacts, I'm just going to be me. And if they say, What did you do at the weekend? I'm going to say, Well, I went swimming. I recorded a video. Have you seen my social media? I'm going to talk about swimming. I've been known to turn up at breakfast meetings before now in a dry robe and a bubble hat because I've been for a sunrise swim first and people are suited and booted and I rock up in a dry robe with three layers on a bubble hat. And as I warm up and have my bacon and eggs, I start to take the layers off.
Esther
Down to the swimsuit? No, okay, we don't need to.
Penny
But I think you just have to be you.
Esther
Exactly. You make an important point of being you because the you that you portray on social media should still be the same you that they meet face to face.
Penny
Exactly.
Esther
And this is where a lot of people in any business, I think, is going a bit off, not that they're wrong, but just off topic or off the beaten track in that they think, Oh, well, will they be able to understand my accent? I need to put on a different accent. Listen to me, guys. I never change my accent. You're listening. You understand me, I think. And if not, there's show notes. I mean, there's ways and means around it. But when we are in different places and in different social platforms, sometimes people act differently or they're really different if you were connect with them on their private Facebook profile as opposed to their business one. And it's like, oh, who is this person? I thought I was talking to Penny, but now I'm talking to Penelope. People can get a bit weird about it.
Penny
Exactly.
Esther
But you're just...
Penny
Yeah, I think it's just important to be you. And I think it's interesting, actually, the rebranding of my business changed how I appear on social media. And I've had so much more success since the rebrand. And it's not just... It's not just the name, it's the brand story and it's the confidence, and it's the confidence to be me. When I was Penelope Allard Bookkeeping Services, I thought I needed to be suited and booted and serious and sensible and professional. When I was trying to appear on social media or on LinkedIn, I was very conscious of an image that I thought I needed to be and where I needed to portray. Having the brand of Wild, that's given me a different perspective. It's enabled me to be me, an authentically me. And I've also realised that you don't have to work with everybody. My ideal client is going to be a certain type of person. So if I can be me, I'm more likely to attract the people I'm going to enjoy working with. I don't really have a niche or an ideal client in terms of industry or size of business, but I want to work with people. We become an integral part of their business. So when they phone me up or they email me, I want to get excited about and their business. I don't want to be frightened, bored, and not connecting there. So I think being authentically you means you will attract your type of people, your tribe, the people who like your things. If somebody wants a suited, booted, serious accountant-.
Melanie
There's plenty of them out there, isn't there?
Penny
Yeah, there's plenty of them out there. If they want somebody that is going to say, Really sorry, could we postpone our meeting till two o'clock? I need the tides in and the surf's up.
Melanie
You say the surf's up?
Penny
Yeah. Well, we don't really get that much surf in Southend, but I love it. When it's wavy and stormy and the weather's really bad, I love swimming in the stormy waves and stormy sea. So if they want someone that's-.
Melanie
This is why it was so important to get you on, Penny, because you are a true storyteller.
I'm not even sure you realise just how good you are at it. But you, you don't just story-tell, you show your passion and your intention and your interest. I suppose we want to treat today's podcast as a form of permission to our listeners. You don't have to go out there with some confusing long-tail, search-engine-optimized story. You can just be you. You can just be a little bit different, a little bit When I heard your story when we were first chatting, my eyes just lit up because there's so much that you can help people grow with just by being yourself. It's fantastic to have you on and to hear your confidence and your sincerity and your passion. How can people learn more about everything you offer, of course, and if there's any downloads or further information that people can gain from you, how can they get access to that as well?
Penny
I'm present on most social media platforms. I'm most likely to be in LinkedIn. That's where I spend most of my time in LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn, Penelope Allard. I'm on Facebook. We've got a Facebook page, Wild Bookkeeping. I'm on Instagram. I've actually got two channels on Instagram. There's a business page which is Wild Bookkeeping. If you want to know more about the swimming, I've got a page at the Wild Bookkeeper, which is just unadulterated swimming. I just post pictures and videos of me swimming, partly because when I first set this up, I still wasn't convinced I could spam a whole bookkeeping page with things about swimming. I thought I needed to keep swimming separately. So the Wild Bookkeeper just talks about swimming and Wild Bookkeeping is more the business side of things. We've got a YouTube channel which is brand new, so we're really keen to get subscribers on there. And if you go to our website, there's a download there with a free spreadsheet which will give you some help with how to price your product if you're making something. I hope that helps and look forward to catching up with everybody on socials.
Melanie
Well, thanks again, Penny, for your time and your story. We've really enjoyed having you on. We're going to be back very soon with another podcast, but of course, if you've got any questions for Penny, please make sure reach her on her socials. If you guys have got any questions or suggestions for any other podcast guests, we'd be delighted to hear from you as well. So make sure you message us at the Monday Morning Marketing as well. So bye-bye for now.
Esther
Bye-bye.
Melanie
Who did you thought tax and waves would have a marriage made in heaven?
Esther
Tumultuous.
Melanie
Tumultuous? Were you working on that?
Esther
No, that just came to me. There are some brain cells working on a Monday morning.
Melanie
Yeah, finally.
