Melanie
The Monday Morning Marketing podcast is brought to you by Esther of IPA Group, bringing premier online promotion to your business.
Esther
And Melanie of STOMP Social Media Training, who empowers business owners to manage social media and marketing for themselves.
Melanie
Hello and welcome back to the Monday Morning Marketing podcast. We're going to be doing a bit of a strange one today, and I know we're going to be dating this podcast, but we're going to be doing, feel the fear and do it anyway. It just seemed to come to me, bearing in mind the time of year it is right now. What would you do, Esther, I'm laughing saying this, that you're afraid of doing, but you'll do it anyway.
Esther
Well, I know what you want me to say, and I'm not going to say it, but what I am afraid of is public speaking, which sounds weird to me as I have a podcast, but I can hide behind the mic with the podcast. But speaking in public is one of my fears, especially standing on a big stage and in front of lots of people that you don't know. I can do it to a smaller audience, and I've done it recently to smaller audiences in local networking groups and things like that. But I just get so nervous beforehand, even if I have all my slides in order, even if I have everything there. I just don't like it. But I have put myself out to do two more speaking engagements before the end of this year.
Melanie
Wow, that's brave.
Esther
And that's to audiences that I do not know. So.
Melanie
What is it about public speaking that puts you off? And how have you overcome it or hoping to overcome it?
Esther
Well, one of them is probably because I'm a woman, but the fear of being judged by other people is like, look at her and she hasn't even... And look at the size of her, the shape of her, the clothes she's wearing, the hair. For those that don't know me, I used to have really long straight, straight, poker straight hair and then did a number on it, and it's now short and curly. So totally having to fit back into my own body at this point. But standing up and thinking there may be people in this room that knew more about this topic than me. And that actually happened at the last group that I spoke at, and it was a small group, but they did an intro before getting to me. And one of the guys, the topic that I was talking about was AI, artificial intelligence. One of the guys in the audience actually said that that's what he specialises in. I'm like, Oh, flip. So one, he knows everything that I'm going to say anyway. And two, if I say anything even slightly wrong, he's going to be all over it. He wasn't. He was really nice about it, and he actually corroborated what I was saying at the end, which was really nice, and even said that some of the things and tools that I use he'd never heard of before. So again, all very nice, but it did put the fear in me before I opened my mouth. What about you? Because you love public speaking, you do it all the time.
Melanie
Won't go as far as that, but I'm less afraid of it than than yourself. It's interesting that you said you found out somebody in the audience knows more about this than you. And in the sphere that we're in, social media and digital marketing, everybody feels they have a good knowledge of social media and digital marketing. And you know what? There is a good dose of people that do.
Esther
Yeah.
Melanie
No word of a lie. But I'm the one that's prepared to put myself up there and stand and talk about it. Whereas a lot of people won't. And sometimes people will say, well, that's wrong. That's incorrect. But there's a good chance. I know it's been updated since.
Esther
Yeah, because you put the effort in just before speaking about it to research it and go, is that still the way it is or has XYZ platform changed in any way?
Melanie
I mean, I'm not infallible either, mistakes happen. But at the end of the day, what makes us go up there and do it is it's much easier when it comes to public speaking this is, and even podcasts, okay? It's much easier for people to come and find us because we've put ourselves out there, than for us to go and seek them through social media marketing, digital marketing, blog posts, press releases.
Esther
Because there are loads of people who do it.
Melanie
Yeah.
Esther
Which is why I have put myself forward for two other speaking gigs this year.
Melanie
And do you think it will get easier each time?
Esther
Probably not. Let's just be honest. But it's one of those things that if a client phones you up and says, Oh, can you do this? And you're not 100% sure about how to do it, would you be the type of person to say, Yeah, I can do that for you and figure it out as you go? Or would you just say, No, I don't feel comfortable with it. Here's somebody else that will do it for you.
Melanie
See, that's a very personal thing, because there are some people out there who will say yes, and if they've got enough time, like maybe there's a monthly time, they'll get, Okay, yeah, I'll see if I can sus this out. I'll do my best. Let's face it, a lot of us don't know what we want to do when we first start a business. I completely changed tangent shortly after I started my business, like a year in because what I was actually doing at the time wasn't working, so I changed it. I think for some people, yeah, there is a little bit of, yeah, I'll give it a go. I'm still prepared to do it more than others. But I've reached a stage now where I know what I'm good at, I know what I'm prepared to put myself out for to learn, and I also know what I don't want to do as well.
Esther
That's good because I'm still growing up. And I think too, again, going back to the chemo and stuff, this has to do with when I was sick in hospital.
Melanie
Yeah prioritising.
Esther
You just start questioning everything. You're like, do I really like doing X, Y, Z? Do I really like whatever? So this is why I'm putting myself forward for more speaking gigs, because I might end up liking it. And I might end up on stage in Dublin, London, you know. Wherever. I'm happier speaking through Zoom calls and through online conferences and things because we've done that before. You and I have both... We've hosted our own, two years ago now we hosted our own DMAT, decision makers and action takers. But we've also spoken on other people. We spoke on Matt Hughes. We've spoken at digital women events. We've spoken individually as well as together on stuff. So I don't know what it is about physically in person standing up and doing it.
Melanie
Well, you can see them for a start. I actually find doing Zoom calls or I used to find doing Zoom calls, especially group trainings, harder because I couldn't feed off their reaction. I couldn't see them being engaged or paying attention. And with the crowd, you can look at them and you can see that they're starting to pick up their phones and go through their bags. You're like, Okay, I need to change this up. You get people standing up and doing stuff. I mean, some of the digital women conferences we've been to, they were fabulous at keeping the audience engaged, as well as the women's inspire ones in the past.
Esther
And the AtomaCon.
Melanie
And AtomaCon? The AtomaCon is just like total left of field of anything.
Esther
Yeah, I think, never. What about you, though? What are you scared of that you either do anyway or you're considering doing it?
Melanie
Well, do you know what? It's going back as far as us. It's going back as far as us because you and I, you're an agency for a start and I'm a sole trader, okay? I'm a solopreneur. And there's always a little part of me that's going, Well, I'm just not as knowledgeable. I'm just not as quick. I'm just not as responsive. I'm just not as good because I'm on my own and I have to do, I have to wear every single hat. The very first time that somebody said to us, Oh, God, you two are so hilarious. You two should work together. Although we knew each other, I wasn't sure I'd be able to compete with you because doing the workload and... I wasn't even competing. That's the wrong word, really. But could my experience and the time I had available match yours because you have staff. This is all going in my head. Since then, I've just found collaborating with others so much easier because it's nowhere near as daunting as you think it might be.
Esther
Yeah, and this is where I'd already collaborated with a lot of people before you and I actually thought about doing a podcast or were encouraged to do the podcast. Guys, we're 200 episodes in, and this is the first time I'm hearing Melanie said that she was scared to do it. That's almost three years of podcasting before. She-
Melanie
Yeah, but I thought I wouldn't be good enough. I wouldn't have the time to set aside and that stuff. But that is imposter syndrome kicking in a little bit there for both of us.
Esther
Yeah, absolutely. But I do highly recommend collaborating because collaborating over competition any day of the week, you're not out to compete with anybody. Nobody's competing with you. And if they are, they're just jealous of what you have. But if you collaborate and work together, then you can bring out the strengths in everybody.
Melanie
I've got one more that is always scary, and I know I'm speaking for everybody listening here, raising your prices.
Esther
Yes, and I think it's something that we've all had to do recently, especially because the cost of everything has gone up. So why do we have to absorb all those costs? That's just madness. But you're yes, thinking that will people still afford this? Will people still want to pay this? Or will I get any clients if I put my prices at whatever? And you'll find that yes, they might not be the same clients, but you will. There's always people for every price bracket, you will find people. If you're too low, then people, some people will go, You might not be good enough because you're so low, but somebody will always pay it. There are a lot of other people that will go, Oh, you're too expensive for me. I can't afford that because I'm only starting out or whatever. But further down the line, they might hire you.
Melanie
So I mean, these are all quite scary. I mean, negotiating with a business, that can be scary. Employing staff, that can be scary. But each time you confront these issues is actually not half as bad as you first imagined. And just by chatting through these issues with maybe an accountability buddy or going to a network event and there's bound to be somebody either covering the topic or somebody in the actual event itself who's experiencing something similar. And do you know what? It's not a bad thing to be a little vulnerable.
Esther
Yeah.
Melanie
And I'm not not suggesting publicly, but well, sometimes it's okay to be vulnerable there as well, as long as you come back with a solution. Because you just say, Oh, crap, I don't know what I'm doing. Then that's not a good sign. But if you say, look, I had this issue. This is what the problem was, and this is how I overcame it, then that thing helps your brand, actually.
Esther
Yeah. And on the similar note, if you still haven't find a resolution to it, asking for help can be scary. Because people might think, oh, you've been in business for so long. You know it all. You know all of the regulations, you know all the things, you know everything about your chosen topic. So you could feel you're most vulnerable when you need to ask for help. And it could be anything. It could be your supplier has let you down. Where can I find a different supplier for, I don't know, cardboard boxes, insert whatever you need here. Or I need to change my accountant. Things like that you're comfortable asking for, so why not ask for the help when it comes to, instead of wearing all the hats in your business, finding somebody who could come alongside you and go, Okay, you do that part and I'll do this part that you don't like doing.
Melanie
Yeah, that was an absolute godsend in when I started handing that stuff out and delegating that stuff at the VAs. You see, that's scary as well, because you hear horror stories about bringing in VAs. But at the end of the day, it doesn't happen all the time to everyone.
Esther
No, and it's the same as... Because we're in the web design industry and you hear so many horror stories of people either being completely gouged for all the money and not getting what they wanted in return or getting a really, really poor quality sight that doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do. And then everybody gets tired with the same brush, even though that's a small minority of people who are cowboys and do it like that.
Melanie
So what we're hoping from today's episode is that everybody feels afraid every now and then, literally everybody, including us. And even when we've collaborated previously, making that initial phone call, you just wonder, how are they going to take it? Are they going to see that you're weak or that you're incapable or are they going to say, oh, actually, this was a really good time for you to call. This is something I can help with, or I'd be really interested in working with you or that thing. So it's a mindset thing, isn't it? It's a complete mindset.
Esther
Completely, because if you reach out to somebody and say, look, I'm struggling with, yes Melanie and I both work in social media, but we're not experts in every single platform. So we shouldn't feel bad or fearful to reach out and go, hey, somebody that works really well in Pinterest, I don't know how to do this part, or how do I get my viewers up on these or do whatever, or YouTube, or any of the new ones that are coming out because there are thousands of them, literally. But we're not afraid to ask for help in that, so why be afraid to ask in other areas that you might feel they're more personal? When it comes to your finances, when it comes to raising your prices, when it comes to going out and searching for clients, I mean, lifting the phone and making a sales call is terrifying. But if that person has already said or has been referred by somebody else, like I got a message from an existing client a while back and says, Look, my son needs a website. I think, just here's his number, send him a message. Okay, never met this guy before in my life, never met her in person either. But she came through another referral and obviously is working out well that she's not referring us. So lifting the phone and either making the call or sending a message or sending an email doesn't have to be that scary. Yes, you're petrified of a no coming back, but then you can move on to the next person.
Melanie
Do you know, I think what would help here, gentle listener, is imagine yourself as a consumer and you're going around looking for insurance quotes or you're walking around your local supermarket and deciding which of these particular shelves that you're going to be shopping from. At the end of the day, the reason why we take these things personally is because it's our business, it's our baby. But nobody else is thinking that. Even when I go shopping or walk down the local high streets and walk past somebody's shop, they can't sit there and go, oh, she walked past. They can't do that. And neither can we. There will always be somebody who wants your product or your service. You just have to keep plugging away. Over time, your skin will thicken.
Esther
Very true.
Melanie
And if Esther can actually admit that she's finally going to be doing public speaking, volunteering for it, no less, then it's your time, guys. Trust me.
Esther
Video might be next. You mean, watch out.
Melanie
We've already said that, remember?
Esther
I know, but yeah, but that'll be after the public speaking parts.
Melanie
No, we've had this conversation.
Esther
And on that note.
Melanie
Blimey. Okay, yes, on that note we shall finish off. But if you need anybody to give you some guidance, if you need to just bounce off some ideas with us, Esther and I are at hand. You know where to find us on all the social media platforms and we'll be back very soon with another podcast.
Esther
Bye.
