Melanie
The Monday Morning Marketing podcast is brought to you by Esther of IPA Group, bringing premier online promotion to your business.
Esther
And Melanie of STOMP Social Media Training, who empowers business owners to manage social media and marketing for themselves. Welcome back to another episode of The Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. Today, we're joined by Alan Hennessy, the Digital Mentor, Best Selling Author, Podcaster, and much more. Today, we're talking about neuromarketing, also known as NLP or Neurolinguistic programming. Wow, that was a mouthful. Welcome, Alan.
Alan
Hello, Hello ladies. How are you today? Great to be on the show. I'm a avid listener to the programme and to the podcast every week, and it's always great to sit and chat with good friends. How are you?
Esther
Very good. Thanks.
Melanie
Really good. And you're always a go-to person for me when I think of, especially, NLP. And we've known each other for a number of years now. We've worked together on various projects, and we've worked at clinics. Those were good fun.
Alan
By the way, they were digital clinics. Just in case someone gets a wrong idea there.
Esther
Just in case people are thinking, We're talking about brains and they're not brain surgeons. They are not.
Alan
Far from, but anyway.
Esther
Okay, Alan, for those people who don't know what NLP is, could you give us a brief rundown, a brief description of what it is?
Alan
Yeah, sure. NLP is neuro-linguistic programming. It's basically, it's how the mind and how the brain works. It is a fascinating tool, and it's a fascinating subject to talk about. I could probably talk about it all day. But basically, it's helping people understand how we use our brains and how we use our minds to get the best situation, get the best out of any situation. That's really in a nutshell what it is. It's fascinating, by the way.
Melanie
Now, we did actually spend nearly as long as our normal podcasts are talking about this before we started recording. It's an area that I'm not fully okay with. And I'm sure a lot of us have heard NLP as a framework. We understand what it means and stands for. But I'd like you to try and help our listeners understand how it can be used for their marketing and how much knowledge. I know you're a master in this field. You've got a masters in it. So do you have to have that depth of knowledge in order to use it effectively, Alan?
Alan
No, you don't. Don't have to. I have, as I said, as you said, I have a masters in it. I've studied it for the last, God, must be seven, eight years at this stage. I went on to do a master's in NLP because I just found it fascinating. Actually, how it started was I went to a boot camp, a very good friend of ours, Daniel Serpiko, and I got hooked, basically. It just opened up so many doors to me. But on a scale of normality, if you want to put it that way, and people putting it into their marketing campaigns and marketing strategies, it's a lot to do with about building rapport and building trust and understanding your clients are understanding your market or your target audience and how you can best serve them. Because at the end of the day, we buy products, we buy services from people we know and trust, and it's about building that, but it's about having an added, I suppose, piece in your arsenal of tools, where you can understand how people actually work and how they understand, how you can get your message across to them, but it comes across in a language that they understand that it's something that they can feel that they like, they understand, they can also develop that relationship with you. It's about using your words, your images, your actual, if you're doing live content or if you're meeting people in person, it's about understanding how they perceive you and then how you can then manipulate the situation. I use the word manipulation, which a lot of people will go, Oh, well, you shouldn't be manipulating people, but we manipulate people every day for our own benefit and for their benefit. Manipulation is not a bad word. It's just a different way of understanding. It's the easiest way to probably to help people to get their head around this. That's really where NLP can really help with your marketing.
Melanie
NLP, first and foremost, would be useful for your customer avatar. That's where we're saying it should start.
Alan
Yeah, and that really is because I've often done training sessions and I'll say to the person like, Who is your target audience? They'll say, Oh, it's people between 20 and 30 and they work in this particular sector. That's the general gist of what people think target marketing is and personas are, when in actual fact, you need to be narrowing that down again to a person. Because if you can talk to one person and get your message across to one person, there is a hundred of those people out there, or a thousand of those people, whatever the scale of your business is, but it's about understanding who they are and what they do, how they live their lives, how they go about the business, how do they take, read content, how do they involve, how does their emotions evolve? It's all about understanding that. And if you can understand this and you can get a better idea of that is your marketing message will become a lot more easy, but it'll also become a lot more succinct with that particular person.
Melanie
I like that succinct. That's perfect. Yeah.
Alan
So really, if you dig deeper into this, you will actually understand that, okay, I know that Melanie likes to eat ice cream, that type of way. This is what I'm saying is that you're able to really get in and say, Okay, well, she likes ice cream. What type of ice cream does she like? She likes vanilla ice cream. She likes it because of the taste of it. Why does she like the taste of it? Because it's creamy. You're really digging a lot deeper into this. This, if you can understand the person that you're trying to target, then your message becomes so much easier.
Esther
Yeah. If you can get it. Obviously. That's what we're talking about, get into their heads.
Alan
Exactly.
Esther
And see what they're thinking and why they're thinking it, then your message becomes, like it gets written in a different way because that's a lot of things, a lot of times that people will say to us, I just don't know how to express what I do. How do I tell people what problem I solve? How do I tell someone this? So with NLP, is it a matter of taking courses, reading a book, just diving into the internet and seeing what's there on YouTube and things like that? Or is there a more specific way that they can learn more about this and use it in their marketing?
Alan
Well, the first thing that they have to do is to change their state of mind. I know that might sound, we're changing your state of mind will help you. Before what we do is we would push messages out. We would say, Oh, buy this from me, or, This is a great product. We do this. Okay, we're not doing anything there. We're not solving a problem. What we're doing is we're telling someone. Instead of us saying it from that angle and coming at it from that point of view, we've got to come at it from the customer's point of view. What is it that the customer isn't looking for? If you're selling, I don't know, let's say ice cream. If you're selling that ice cream, you've got to turn around and look and say, Okay, well, when would this person really like this ice cream? Well, they probably like it on a sunny day. They'd like it. You understand what I mean? What you're doing is you have to change your state of mind and think as a customer instead of thinking of what the customer wants. Changing your state of mind is the key to this, and it's the changing of that that will help you to get closer to that customer and start to build that rapport with them. Because now you're thinking like them. That's where changing your state of mind needs to be done.
Melanie
Now, so far, we've discussed quite extensively what can be done in written or maybe in video formats. Very interestingly, we agreed earlier before we started recording people to buy from people. If we are doing in-person or if we have a trade show, stand, or a shop, or something like that, we don't always necessarily get the same amount of time with people to learn this information. How do we use NLP face-to-face, Alan?
Alan
Using NLP face-to-face is probably the best way.
Melanie
Oh.
Alan
Yeah, it is, because we can tell a lot from person from the minute they stand in front of us. If we look at their body, the way they stand, the way their body movements are, whether they're holding clasping their hands, whether their hands are behind the backs, whether their arms are folded, where their eyes are moving, when you're talking to them, it's all about you've got to be engaging with that person. You've got to make that first move. Because what happens is, when people go to trade shows, the first thing they'll do is they're welcome to stand. Oh, no, I'm just looking. Okay, that's the first thing that people say. Oh, no, I'm just looking. Can I help you? No, I'm just looking. Okay. Whether you turn around, if you said to them, How are you today? What's going on in your world? Automatically, you've changed their state of mind because you've done something that nobody else has done in this trade show. Now, I'm not saying that you have to do that to everyone, but you've got to find something that's going to make them go, Hold on, because what we're doing here is, is NLP is all about the brain. It's all about the mind. It's about tricking the mind into actually opening up and letting you in. When you do this, when you start to actually get into someone's head, so when I used to meet someone, the first thing I would say is that, What's going on in your world? Because what it does is it's confusing. They go, Hold on. They're not supposed to ask that question. They're supposed to say, Hi, I'm such and such, or, How can I help you? Whereas when you change the conversation. It automatically changes the way they look. Your next thing there is you need to read their body language. Are they standoffish? If they're standoffish, then you need to step back and not invade their space. Because if you invade their space, they're automatically going to put up a defence. Whereas if they're more relaxed, you have to be more relaxed. You're nearly mirroring what they're doing. When you start to do that, you build trust. Subconsciously, we're building that trust. And subconsciously, we're starting to build that rapport because that's where it all starts. Reading people's body language and what they're doing, you may see it sometimes where you be at a meeting and there might be someone that might be fidgeting all the time. Why are they fidgeting? Because they're not interested. You've got to find something that will interest them and make them more to come to you. Sometimes you might have people who are just have to be there. You start to say, Okay, I know you have to be there. Sometimes it's easy to just call it out and say, I know you have to be here, but while we're here, let's try and enjoy this. That could be in a training programme. Let's try and enjoy it. What is it that really would help you? Now you've automatically got into their trust. Reading them and understanding the person and looking at what their signals are, are so important.
Melanie
Interesting.
Esther
Is there much of a difference? You were talking about the subconscious there. Is there much of a difference between NLP and hypnosis? Because they could talk about the subconscious.
Alan
There isn't, there isn't. Yeah, well, look, if you look at the subconscious mind and you look at hypnosis, all we're doing is we're hypnosis, all we're doing is we're putting you into a state of mind. For instance, I remember when I was doing my masters in it, there was a girl who was on the course and she was terrified of heights. She wouldn't even stand at the top of the stairs and look over the stairs. She was so scared. What Danielle did at the time was she actually changed the way she thought about looking over the stairs. She gave her a reason to look over it, so changing her state. She put her into a hypnotic state while she was doing this because she needed to get into the subconscious mind, because the defences were there stopping her from doing this, because that's what the brain will do. It'll automatically tell you to, No, I can't go there. Whereas if you can relax that and get past the conscious mind. Remember, the conscious mind is seven %. The subconscious mind is 93 %, which is huge. It's huge when you think about this. Your subconscious mind is what you do when you put one foot in front of the other. Your subconscious mind is when it tells you how to put that one foot in front of the other. The idea behind it is that when you're doing that type of hypnosis, you've got to understand that there has to be a real reason for it. You just don't do it flippantly, but you don't really actually need to do it. You don't really need to put them into a hypnotic trance or state, because what you can do is you can do that consciously. Because all you're doing is, as we spoke about with The Trade Show, that person walks up. We're automatically starting to hypnotise them with what we're saying, without actually putting them like... Because everyone thinks hypnosis is, Oh, I clicked my fingers and you're gone three seconds. Not necessarily, because have you ever watched a programme where you've just gotten so into it that everything around you just doesn't, you don't even hear it? That's hypnosis. It's just the brain is tuning in to what particular it needs to know.
Esther
Now we're talking about NLP for marketing and for improving your business. But by the sounds of it, these ways of doing things could actually help in everyday life as well. Relationships with spices and kids and stuff like...
Alan
But the thing about... See, this is the thing about this, Esther, is that when you start to implement an NLP into your life, it automatically starts to control what you do and how you view the world. This is where I'll say to you, it's very important that you use NLP in your life, but then just convert it into your business world, into your marketing and stuff like that. It really can really be effective in that way.
Esther
Interesting. Do you find that the same system works for neurodivergent types as well? Because you were saying, if somebody's at a meeting and they're fidgeting, it's not necessarily that they're not interested in being there or not paying attention. It could be that they need to fidget in order to listen more effectively.
Alan
Yeah, everyone learns differently. Everyone acts differently, but it's about you understanding, Okay, that person is not one of the persons. If I'm doing a talk, the first thing I do is if it's standing in front of me between me and the audience, I will actually move that. I done a talk in the mansion house in Dublin, and there was plants in front of me. Basically, what I done was before I start here, Sorry, can I just move these plants? I moved them because I said, I don't want a barrier between me and you. That there was me changing people's state of mind, that simple little thing. Because what they did is there was 10 speakers on that day. Who are they going to remember? The guy who moved the plants. You know what I mean? There's all of these things, but people learn differently and you've got to be aware of it. That's what NLP teaches you to be aware of it. Now, I'm not saying that you're... A lot of it's common sense, guys. A lot of this is common sense. It's just standing out from yourself and looking at the surroundings that's in front of you. Because once you start to do that, then you start to see the world differently. You start to see how you can get that message across to someone, whether that be online, offline. It's very easily done. But you've got to be aware of it, because we all have it. We just don't use it.
Melanie
Now, you've given us some excellent examples there, both online and face-to-face, which I think, frankly, are incredibly valuable. And we've also established you do not need to be a master to do it, which is great. But if we wanted to get guidance, is there reputable associations, people who can train in this, books we can read? How would you help somebody best educate themselves in this and how to apply it to their marketing?
Alan
There's a huge amount of literature out there on NLP. NLP was created by John Rinder and also by Richard Brandler back in the 70s, and they're the masters at this. So if you search for anything online from them, but if you want something closer to home, and I always say this, and it's not a plug, I'm not affiliated to her in any shape or form, but I would say get in contact with Danielle Serpiko, the black belt mastermind, because she was my master and she taught me so much. She's an incredible lady, but she just understands how this works so well, and she's taught it for so many years. I would definitely check out Danielle Serpiko.
Esther
Brilliant.
Melanie
Can she help an international audience, Alan? Because we've got-
Alan
She can.
Melanie
She can?
Alan
Yeah, she does a lot of international work. Look, if anyone wants to have a chat with me, I'm happy to talk to them and be able to help them to guide them. I do a wide range of digital mentorship programmes, and NLP is included in that because it's very important. As I said-
Melanie
It's not even a separate course. It's something you incorporate.
Alan
It's incorporated.
Melanie
Perfect.
Alan
My philosophy on training is this holistic digital marketing train, because what I do is I don't tell you how to post because everyone knows how to post, but I tell you why you should post, and what you should say, and how you should say it. That's part of it.
Esther
Brilliant. Well, I wish we could have longer to chat with you today, Alan. If you're interested in learning more, go to thedigitalmentor.ie. And you can also find his book there, which is called Solving the Digital Marketing Jigsaw Puzzle. And it's right there on his website. And you can get it from Amazon and Kindle and all those good places. I'm sure it's in physical bookshops here in Ireland as well. And thank you so much, Alan, for coming on and joining us today.
Alan
It's been a pleasure. And thank you so much for having me on the show. I really enjoyed it. And keep going with this podcast because it's fantastic.
Esther
Thank you, Alan.
Melanie
Thanks, Alan.
Esther
Now I want some ice cream.
Melanie
That's all I've been thinking about as well.
Alan
See, that's NLP. Putting that into your head now you're going up to get your ice cream. Have a great day, guys. Thank you so much.
Esther
All right, Alan, thanks. Bye-bye. We'll be back next week with more Monday morning marketing. Until then, bye-bye.
Is vanilla your favourite ice cream. Then, Melanie?
Melanie
Actually, it is. Having Alan on is bad for my diet.
Alan
It's good for your diet. You have to treat yourself.
Esther
Yes.
Melanie
Are you serious?
Alan
Of course, I am so serious. Why wouldn't you have ice cream?
Melanie
It is quite nice.
