Melanie
Monday Morning Marketing podcast is brought to you by Esther of IPA group, bringing premiere online promotion to your business.
Esther
And Melanie of STOMP Social Media Training, who empowers business owners to manage social media and marketing for themselves. And welcome back to another episode of the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. Today we're joined by Georgina Thomas, marketing freelancer at Tellus Media and sustainability practitioner. And we're talking about sustainability in business. Welcome, Georgina.
Georgina
Hello. It's so great to be here. I love your podcast.
Esther
Oh, yeah, we love that you love our podcast. Brilliant. Now, we're just going to get straight in to it because we don't, from listening to our podcast, we don't mess around the bush here. So sustainability, what is it, first of all?
Georgina
Well, sustainability is really about not taking out more than we're putting in in terms of the environment, social values, that thing. So it's making sure that we've got enough resources to sustain us without depleting.
Esther
Okay. So if I was to print off a whole ream of paper from my emails and stuff, if I just go and plant a tree, is that me being sustainable?
Georgina
Well, that class is offsetting, and that's a completely whole massive debate and argument around that. But actually, because I work for the forestry industry, I'm going to say that that is sustainable. If you're going to use paper in your business and it's FFC certified paper, which means it's from sustainably managed forest where they're never cutting down more trees than what they're planting, then actually go ahead and print that paper because you're actually part of an industry that's doing some really great things for biodiversity and sustainable forest. Actually, I'm in favour of printing something, not necessarily printing something if you don't have to, but in terms of using maybe packaging or printing flyers because there's a place for traditional marketing still, as you know. I would say go for it if it's right for your business.
Melanie
Is it something that every business these days should make as a part of their mission statement, do you think?
Georgina
I think it would be good. I don't believe in people forcing it into their mission statement. If there's not something that they can make sustainable or improvements they can make, there's no point in forcing it unless you're actually planning on practicing it or actually changing your business.
Melanie
And do you think more people are becoming aware of it? Do you think people are making their choices by the sustainability message that people are sharing if they actually remember to share it?
Georgina
Absolutely. It's growing, isn't it? Everyone can see from the news, from the way people are adapting their products, to the services out there, to the way people are talking about sustainability. It's just getting bigger and bigger, especially since David Attenborough days where it's just talking about climate change. And now there's the whole micro plastics issues and how it's ending up in waterways. There's a lot out there and there's a lot more people seeing it and making sustainable choices, especially when they're shopping.
Esther
Getting back to businesses, and a lot of our listeners are small business owners. Does that also sustainability, does it also include the equipment that you use, the lights that you have in your house or in your office? Does it include how often you have your air conditioning on? How far do we have to go to cut back on things or change things in order to be sustainable?
Georgina
This completely at the moment comes down to personal choice and a marketeer's own or a business owner's their own values because there is no government legislation for small businesses in that way that there is for big business. And it's all about just understanding what difference you want to make. So we know at the moment that we should turn our lights off when we're in our home, cut down on heating if we don't need it, recycle, for example. They're just very basics that people are starting to do. And it depends on the person how far they want to go as part of their social values, really, and their environmental values.
Esther
Okay, so it is all linked in then with social responsibility and at the minute, a bit of personal choice. Can you see the government then turning around... I know we have audiences in different countries, but if one government starts doing it, they might all start doing it. Where they will also enforce these rules, the same rules that they have for big business on small business?
Georgina
I can't see them hugely enforcing it because it is the big business that are making the biggest impact in terms of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. That's the one biggest thing that gets talked about becoming carbon neutral, becoming net zero. But you can see that they are changing policies that does force us down a certain route in the everyday lives that we lead as just individuals in terms of the rules around packaging and that thing. But it's the bigger business that are being forced. But the smaller businesses, they're going to want to do it anyway because of the shift in consumer behaviour. So they'll be forced down that route in terms of if they're making a product and you're marketing your product as a small business, you're going to be forced to make sure that it's as sustainable as possible because of the rules on plastic packaging, for example.
Melanie
To our listeners, and we're very lucky, we've got quite a nice global audience rounding up on the podcast, what takeaways can you give people? Is there downloads or books or services that you offer that can help people better understand how to make sustainability a true transformation process for their business?
Georgina
There is loads of resources out there. There's actually the small business hub, which is supported by the government, and it gives a step by step guide on how to reduce your own emissions. So that's the biggest thing that's tracked at the moment. A lot of people can't afford to pay for someone to do a life cycle assessment. So that's actually looking into a part of the business, say a product that someone, like someone launches, a marketer launches a physical book and that could have a metal binder on it. Well, what's involved in that process? Well, you've got to get the metal from China. What are the transport emissions in that? What's the type of paper? Is the paper recyclable? Is the product recyclable? There's a whole assessment you can do on that. That's the nitty gritty of it. But there's lots of things you could be doing just from using that SME Hub, all about reducing your emissions yourself and your business. And then if you want to start looking at other things like your transport arrangements, how you get into work, are you getting to work? Are you using office space? And does that office space are you using a lot of electricity? And there's so many different aspects. It's so big to cover in this podcast that you'd have to drill down into parts of your business to know what changes you can make. And obviously, when you do make these efficient changes in cutting down your carbon footprint, there's often savings to be made as well. So it actually makes good business sense to cut down on what you're doing.
Melanie
There's these hubs, which are great areas to get information from, but do you think there's enough financial support being made available by... And I know you can only talk about the UK, but do you think there's sufficient support financially that can help make these changes possible for the businesses? Would it suit only corporates or can it help smaller businesses or even sole traders?
Georgina
There are loads of pockets of funds out there, but it really does depend on the industry that person is in. So, for example, you're a business that wants to unlock funds to offset. There is things out there. It's a really bad example. I've got really bad examples in my head. I want a good example.
Melanie
Put you on the spot, didn't I? Sorry.
Georgina
Yeah, you did put me on the spot. Because there is loads of funding out there, but people have to look for it. It has to link to their business. You know, like packaging and stuff. Mind you, packaging is not a good example either.
Esther
Well, say we've got jewellery makers or candle makers listening to us. What can they do? What is recyclable in the candle? I mean, you've got the wax, you've got the wick, but you've got the container. How is that...
Georgina
Okay. Instead of taking your candle example, I'm going to take your jewellery example, because I've got a jewellery company that is one of my clients, and their biggest thing is they do buy some jewellery that's obviously being made, and obviously there's a production issue in that. When you're mining those raw materials, there's going to be a carbon footprint associated with it, which can be very hard for a small business to do anything about. But you can make choices in the product. So this business up cycles jewellery or, or melts down any jewellery from elsewhere that people bring in and creates it into new pieces. So you can adapt your business model to make sure you're choosing the raw material which is reused. So you're melting down old jewellery, so you're not taking anything, a raw material out of the atmosphere. So that's a good one. That's a good example, I think. And when it comes to wax, sustainably, I bet there's issues. If you were to look into it, there must be issues around certain, especially like wax mouths. There's chemicals that's been put in and there's a lot of controversy around actually the sustainability of them. So it's all about making sure you're sustainably sourcing the right materials and then marketing that as well to make sure that you're holding yourself to account and making sure that you're always adapting and making that product better and better for sustainability.
Esther
Yeah, because, well, Melanie mentioned there about the cost and you were saying that a lot of times it turns out cheaper. A lot of times we might think that it would be more expensive to source local products or source things that were pre loved, preowned and remade locally because we live in an economy that is very high compared to a lot of other places around the world. If we all look at our clothes, I'm sure they're not made in the UK or Ireland. Those textile industries were run out years and years ago whenever other industries around the world became more powerful. So how can we as consumers then make those better choices? Where do we start looking?
Melanie
Good question there, girl.
Georgina
That is a very good question and one that I think about all the time. And like you even said yourself, actually, reusing clothes is the best option. So first and foremost, we need to stop consuming clothes. I'm not saying stop the economy, stop buying, but actually this second-hand economy is growing. Vinted is huge now. On Love Island now, eBay only promote their pre love stuff, don't they? And they're all wearing all the pre loved items, which is great. It's all about that reuse. So that's the biggest one. And then if you're a business that's involved in clothing, that's a tough business to be in if you're selling clothes because a lot of the time it's made from polyester, which is made from fossil fuels. So as a consumer, the first thing you can do is definitely reuse. Shop in charity shops, shop on vintage, sell your old clothes, buy new clothes, visit boot fairs. That repurposing is the biggest way to know that you're doing something way better for the environment than something getting created from scratch and from that raw material, for sure.
Melanie
One of the classes that my eldest daughter does at school is called Junk Kouture, have you come across Junk Kouture?
Georgina
I haven't. Junk couture. Love the name.
Melanie
It's an absolute revelation. In fact, I won't mention the school, but one of the students this year went and won herself a place in a Dubai competition from the competition here in Ireland. Her outfit was amazing. It was all made by hand. Even from the absolute grassroots now, they're trying to bring our next generation better informed, helping the more creative kids out there look towards a future where they're becoming more sustainable. In fact, there's almost a demand for it, isn't there? You can't do something now without this being at least in your conversation or on your website. With this in mind, and the fact that our audience is definitely a lot more educated and more informed these days, do you feel, in your professional opinion, that people are talking about it enough for their companies and for their brands?
Georgina
I would love to say that they are, but... Okay. Well...
Melanie
You're live on channel four. Please do not swear.
Georgina
It's just because there's two sides for it. I deep down know that people are marketing... People are using systems... What was the question again?
Esther
This is so going as the outtake.
Melanie
The question I wanted to ask is, do you feel enough brands are talking about this? Because the next generation is so much better informed these days. There's a demand for sustainability and climate change education. From the absolute grassroots, our kids know exactly what they want out of their lives to protect their planet. So do you feel, even though there are people who are saying they're sustainable, are they making a case enough about it? Are they talking about it enough? And if not, what can we do to encourage them?
Georgina
Big businesses are making a case about it. They're using it as part of their marketing because they want to get that audience that young. It's not even younger audiences across all ages actually now that care about it. They are doing a big thing. They've all got sustainability managers now. They're all trying to make a change, and some of them are getting caught in the green washing because they're making the claims and then they're incorrect. And whether they're doing that on purpose or if they're doing that by accident because it's so new, like the policy changes and everything like that. But for smaller businesses, especially the audience watching, what they can do is they can learn from that now and don't greenwash, basically. Don't make misleading claims about what you're doing. Be honest about it. This is using plastic and we're trying to change that. We want to reduce the amount of plastic we're using. We want to use more sustainable products because most companies now need to bring that into what they're doing. It's just this is how it is now. We know that we're on track for a tipping point and things are going to happen in the world and it's going to be escalating more and more. In terms of climate change and everything we do has an impact on that. People are realising that more and more. But a lot of people are still continuing business as normal. A lot of people are still just selling brand new clothes and not having to worry about the environmental impact because there's nothing for small business all businesses in fashion. There's nothing telling them that you shouldn't be using certain products or anything like that. They're getting away. A big company called... Have you heard of, I think it's pronounced SHIEN? It's bigger than... They've had more app downloads than Amazon. And they sell millions of garments a day, and some of them for as little as £2, say, for example.
Melanie
Is that SHEIN?
Georgina
Yeah. Some of it is SHIEN.
Melanie
I've got two young girls. It's just constant.
Georgina
And that is when people, they don't care about sustainability. They do. They do. The consumers are. But then they're like, oh, my God. I care about sustainability.
Esther
two quid.
Georgina
It's two quid. And I'm like, oh, how do you compete with that? Actually, a lot of their factories are not doing well in terms of not just environmental, but in terms of the staff and everything like that. Sustainability is more than just the environment. It's about people as well, and it's about protecting them. And we're still, as consumers, a lot of us are still making choices that are not great for the environment because cost still comes into it.
Melanie
Convenience.
Georgina
Convenience as well.
Melanie
Access and convenience. But this is why this topic was so important for us to highlight. We have a laugh talking about marketing a lot and yeah, totally fair enough. But it's a passion for both myself and Esther. And I know I'm not speaking out of turn here for Esther about climate change and sustainability. And that's why it was so important we get you on, Georgina. So how do we go about educating people better? Is it paid ads? Is it speaking tours? How are we going to do this better?
Esther
Leaflets. Print it off and put it through their door.
Georgina
There's still place for traditional marketing. Do you know what? It's about placing value ahead of profits in what we do. As businesses, yes, we know making a profit is that that's the main goal. But if we can put that in with actually... If we can include sustainability within making profits as well and thinking about everything we do has an impact and sharing that story with people and making some goals. So I want to be a net zero business by 2030 because it means a lot to our business and this is how we're going to do it or try to do it. And then that's what I mean by the minute you start posting on social media and creating content around your story, then you're holding yourself to account because your audience was like, you said that you were going to do this and make this product more like this. So that is a really good start, I think. And I think that's what's important. People need to start talking about, especially small businesses, because we don't. As small businesses, we just worry about it and then not talk about it like you guys are today. Actually, if we go on a social media feed of a small business, nine times out of 10, they're not really talking about sustainability unless it's really, really important to their business. That marketing spin is important in their business. But we could all be doing it as freelancers, as agencies, as small business owners. We should be talking about it, not just about our business, but we could be talking about it in terms of what's going on out there that we agree with or want to be part of, for example.
Esther
And like you said, too, it doesn't necessarily have to be overnight. You could take a few years to really get this all set up and to understand it as well, because like you said, it's relatively new. It's a relatively new term, the whole sustainability and business. We've been recycling in the house for years and years, but it's not worldwide either. I mean, there's lots of countries around the world that don't recycle.
Melanie
The amount of people who say, Well, I recycle. Well, good. But that's not enough. You need to do more. You need to walk more. Instead of getting into a car, you need to take cloth bags with you instead of plastic ones, even the for life ones. There's so much more you can do. I think people say, Well, I'm doing my bit, but honestly, you're not. There's still more you can do.
Esther
We could talk about this for ages, but I just want to thank you.
Melanie
.Are you telling me to shut up?
Esther
Yeah. I want to thank Georgina for coming on today with us nutcases. How can people get in touch with you, Georgina, and learn more either about tel us media or about your sustainability part?
Georgina
You can either go to my website, which is tellusmedia.co.uk, which there's not much information on there, to be honest, because it's-.
Relatively new website.
Melanie
You need website help. I know someone who can tell you.
Esther
Hi.
Georgina
It's relatively new and the information is probably not out to date. So maybe find me on LinkedIn, because I do like using LinkedIn. I'm a big user on there and my LinkedIn is... Yeah, do I have it to hand? No, probably changed it a few times. Oh, it's get management.
Esther
We didn't put it in the bio.
Georgina
Okay, sorry. You can find me, just Georgina Thomas on LinkedIn. There's about a thousand Georgina Thomas', but hopefully they find me through you.
Esther
Yeah, we'll put it in the Show Notes.
Melanie
and we'll put it in the... Yeah, we'll put it in the Show Notes.
Esther
Georgina, it's been an absolute pleasure and a breath of fresh air having you here today with us. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be back next week, guys, with more Monday Morning Marketing. Until then, bye-bye.
Melanie
Bye, guys.
Georgina
Amazing. Thank you. Bye.
Melanie
Oh, Lord. That was good. We did give it a bit of a keyed up, though, don't we, Georgina?
Georgina
I'm really worried about how it came across because I didn't get in everything and I really just randomly say what comes to my head and how I feel rather than what may be, be gramatically and better for your podcast.
Melanie
But welcome to how we organise our podcast.
